Jehovah's Witnesses...

[Elijah John]

This question is specifically for Jehovah's Witnesses, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

As an organization who understands and appreciates the name of God, Father Jehovah, why regard Paul at all? Someone who places Jesus name above all, even above the name of Father Jehovah?

The Watchtower Society proclaims the name of the LORD Jehovah, Paul? Never. Unless I am missing something.

He seems to equate "the Lord" with "Christ", not YHVH.

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name

Phillippians 2.9

For debate...has Paul put Jesus name above every other name including YHVH's?

If it was God and not Paul who did this, where does YHVH say He would ever do this, putting the Messiah's name above His own?

If not, why doesn't Paul proclaim YHVH's name, only Jesus?

If Paul has put Jesus name above all, why should anyone who loves YHVH consider Paul's writings "Sacred Scripture"?

[Elijah John]

The only non bloody forgiveness Jesus taught was the forgiving of one another.

I don't think so. The Lord's Prayer teaches us to ask the Father for forgiveness, contingent on our willingness to forgive others. No blood involved.

The Beattitude teaches that the merciful will receive mercy. No blood involved.

The Parable of the Prodigal Son (for one example), has God as the Father, and the Son returning to the Father (simple repentance), and the Father overjoyed to forgive. No blood involved.

[onewithhim]

Sword007 posted:

The Scriptures tells us there is no other name under heaven whereby men must be saved, except by the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

QUESTION: So are you telling us that scripture says there are only Christians in heaven?
Or is scripture in error on this point?

Jesus Christ told us how to be born again. He said unless we are born again, we cannot see the kingdom of heaven. Jesus also said: "I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father, except by ME. He never said there was any other way.

Yes, there are only Christians in heaven, as we all learned last night at the Memorial of Christ's Death. He made a covenant with a small group of people to have them rule with him in heaven, on the night that he was betrayed. Nobody on Earth thought of going to heaven before Christ made that covenant with his Apostles.

But what about the people they rule over? That is where most of us come in....there are BILLIONS who will be guided by Christ and his co-rulers (who will remain in heaven). These billions of people will be living on the earth forever, in Paradise conditions. Those people who are "born again" are only those who will go to heaven to rule. Billions of us don't have to be born again.


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[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 61 by onewithhim]

Nobody on earth though of going to heaven before Christ came along? Oh, c'mon. Any serious study of world religions will plainly demonstrate otherwise.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 62 by hoghead1]

[center]

Other people might not be so so so serious in their studies.[/center]

Nobody on earth though of going to heaven before Christ came along? Oh, c'mon. Any serious study of world religions will plainly demonstrate otherwise.

She probably means nobody on earth thought of going to the heaven that Christ was talking about. Jesus did make some theological innovations.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 61 by onewithhim]

Nobody on earth though of going to heaven before Christ came along? Oh, c'mon. Any serious study of world religions will plainly demonstrate otherwise.

Will you apprise me of exactly what "world religions" said about humans going to heaven, please, before Christ?


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[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 61 by onewithhim]

Nobody on earth though of going to heaven before Christ came along? Oh, c'mon. Any serious study of world religions will plainly demonstrate otherwise.

Will you apprise me of exactly what "world religions" said about humans going to heaven, please, before Christ?


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I think Zoroastrianism, for one, and arguably, Judaism itself.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 61 by onewithhim]

Nobody on earth though of going to heaven before Christ came along? Oh, c'mon. Any serious study of world religions will plainly demonstrate otherwise.

Will you apprise me of exactly what "world religions" said about humans going to heaven, please, before Christ?


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I think Zoroastrianism, for one, and arguably, Judaism itself.

Could you explain just what Zoroastrianism taught about humans going to heaven? And Judaism never taught such a thing (in the Scriptures, that is).

Thanks.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 61 by onewithhim]

Nobody on earth though of going to heaven before Christ came along? Oh, c'mon. Any serious study of world religions will plainly demonstrate otherwise.

Will you apprise me of exactly what "world religions" said about humans going to heaven, please, before Christ?


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I think Zoroastrianism, for one, and arguably, Judaism itself.

Could you explain just what Zoroastrianism taught about humans going to heaven? And Judaism never taught such a thing (in the Scriptures, that is).

Thanks.

I know they believe in resurrection and judgement. Not sure about the details though. Perhaps others can fill us in.

Judaism too, teaches resurrection. Some to everlasting life, some to everlasting contempt.

And Elijah was taken up into Heaven.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 65 by Elijah John]

Will you apprise me of exactly what "world religions" said about humans going to heaven, please, before Christ?

I think Zoroastrianism, for one, and arguably, Judaism itself.

Yes, but not absolutely exactly the very very super duper same as her precise Christian beliefs.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 61 by onewithhim]

Nobody on earth though of going to heaven before Christ came along? Oh, c'mon. Any serious study of world religions will plainly demonstrate otherwise.

Will you apprise me of exactly what "world religions" said about humans going to heaven, please, before Christ?


.

I think Zoroastrianism, for one, and arguably, Judaism itself.

Could you explain just what Zoroastrianism taught about humans going to heaven? And Judaism never taught such a thing (in the Scriptures, that is).

Thanks.

I know they believe in resurrection and judgement. Not sure about the details though. Perhaps others can fill us in.

Judaism too, teaches resurrection. Some to everlasting life, some to everlasting contempt.

And Elijah was taken up into Heaven.

OK...I didn't ask about resurrection. Old Testament writers indicated a belief in such. What I'm asking about is humans going to heaven.

What I have gleaned so far about Zoroastrianism is that their god, Ahura Mazda, will ultimately prevail over the evil Angra Mainyu, "at which point the universe will undergo a cosmic renovation and time will end." This agrees with JW thought. "In the final renovation, all of creation---even the souls of the dead [JWs believe that souls can die] that were banished to 'darkness'---will be reunited in Ahura Mazda, returning to life in the undead form. At the end of time, a savior-figure (a Saoshyant) will bring about a final renovation of the world, in which the dead will be revived." (Wikipedia)


It seems that Zoroastrianism teaches that it's the physical planet that will be re-populated with people who have died and are then resurrected. That philosophy is in line with what I was saying about humans going to heaven being a relatively new thought, that is, new since Jesus was on Earth.

I don't see anywhere in the Hebrew Scriptures references to humans going to heaven. Resurrection back to Earth, yes.

Elijah did not go to heaven. That statement is borne out by the fact that the "heaven" he went to is exactly the same "heaven" that birds fly in (Deuteronomy 4:17). He didn't go up any further than that level of the atmosphere. When he went up in the chariot, he simply was transferred to another part of the countryside to carry out another assignment from Jehovah. He went to Jehoram, the king of Judah, to tell him of Jehovah's condemnation because of his wickedness. (See 2Chronicles 21:12-15.)

Jesus also said at John 3:13 that "no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man."