Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

[polonius]

Jesus prophecized that the second coming would occur while some of his generation were still alive, but it didn't.

There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't. So, what's the claim now?

www.britannica.com/topic/Jehovahs-Witnesses

The Adventist movement emerged in the 1830s around the predictions of William Miller, who proclaimed that Jesus Christ would return in 1843 or 1844.

When Christ did not return as Miller prophecied, Adventists divided into a number of factions.

During the 1870s, Charles Taze Russell established himself as an independent and controversial Adventist teacher.

He rejected belief in hell as a place of eternal torment and adopted a non-Trinitarian theology that denied the divinity of Jesus. He also interpreted the Second Coming in accordance with the literal translation of the original Greek term, parousia (presence), suggesting that Christ would come as an invisible presence and that the Parousia, or Millennial Dawn, already had occurred, in 1874.

The coming of Christs invisible presence signaled the end of the current order of society and would be followed by his visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth in 1914.

Although the kingdom did not come, Russells teachings motivated a number of volunteers to circulate his many books and pamphlets and a periodical, The Watchtower, and to recalculate the time of the Parousia.

So when will Christ's visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth occur?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 58 by Checkpoint]

Aren't we still waiting for myth to explain from Scripture how he arrived at that date for the start of the Millennium? Or did I miss his explanation?

Why bother?

Such explanations are a dime a dozen, as are the claims they try to support.

"vanity, and grasping after wind".

True. I was just curious to see how he arrived at his conclusion.

Guess we all are, kinda.

He hasn't fronted up so far, and has generally been very quiet.

[Checkpoint]

Aren't we still waiting for myth to explain from Scripture how he arrived at that date for the start of the Millennium?

May be, but why is anyone waiting to find out the start date of something that started almost 2000 years ago? Ah, well, because they don't realize it, I guess. What these folks think is the start of the millennium will actually be the end of it.

Grace and peace to you all.

Something like that; yes.

What comes right after the millennium? Revelation 20: 11-15..the final judgment.

When does the judgment take place? At the return of Christ, the one we have been waiting for.

Wait.....Checkpoint, you also believe we are IN the Millennium NOW? I have asked Pinseeker to respond to a certain question, which he never did. I said, if we are in the Millennium, then why is Satan still on the loose? Why is the world still so wild and wicked? I wonder if he noticed that the world would be ruled by Christ and his co-rulers for the thousand years, with Satan in the "abyss." How could we be living during that time now?

I recall Pinseeker did answer the Satan question, but that was before there was this thread.

You could ask him again as part of your reply to his recent post on this thread[the text of which is included in this post and in yours].

It is avalid question.

Talking of questions asked and not answered.. there are two of those your present post in reply overlooked!

Once you give me your answers, we can furter discuss if you like, including what I have left unanswered this time.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 81 by Checkpoint]

Well, why don't you fill me in on Pinseeker's answer about Satan? Do you agree with him?

I didn't mean to skip any of your questions. I'll have to go back and find them.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 81 by Checkpoint]

I apologize. I can't find any posts of yours with questions I didn't answer. Could you please either tell me the numbers of the posts or at least remind me of the questions?

[onewithhim]

JW posted:

"Russell was wrong about some things and correct about others. Jehovah's Witnesses have no problem pointing out where Russell was wrong. He was right about 1914 (see above) but wrong on other things."

QUESTION: Since you tell us that Christ returned invisibly in 1914, how did anyone prove Russel was right?

And are you now expecting us to believe that although Jesus has been here for over 100 years, he's still invisible?

Jesus didn't literally come back to Earth. In 1914 he officially started his rule from heaven. His "presence" was realized in 1914. Jesus can be "present" in spirit, just as he has been since he went back to heaven ("I am with you until the end of the world"....Matt.28:19). But in 1914 it was special. The "Times of the Gentiles" was over, and Jesus was ruling---for a time, over his church, getting us ready to proclaim the end of the system. Then when that work is done, he will come back with his angelic forces and eradicate the wicked at Armageddon.

Jesus will always be invisible, and he will do all his work from heaven. Can you imagine what I Timothy 6:14-16 means? Do you think someone so glorious would take back a physical body and come back physically to the earth after being in that awesome "unapproachable" light in heaven?

[onewithhim]

JW, you yourself said that your organiztion admits it's errors, why double down on Russell's failed prediction for 1914?

The claim of the ongoing (since 1914) invisible reign of Christ is convincing to no one outside of the WTS organization.

That needessly diminishes the credibility of the WTC.

Why? Didn't any of those links that JW supplies lead anyone to understand that according to Bible chronology, the year 1914 is pinpointed? The prophecy involved the gigantic tree that was cut down in Daniel chapter 4. Has anyone checked this out? Decoding that information in chapter 4 gives us the year 1914 when God's rule (by Christ) would begin. If you have an interest in this prophecy, there is an amazing book that you can see on our website www.jw.org called "Pay Attention to the Prophecy of Daniel," that covers it in detail.

If no one is convinced about 1914 then I would say they have never examined the prophecy of the big tree in Daniel 4.



.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 11 by Elijah John]


EJ, how can someone delete their post? I posted a link to something and it no longer is there. I would like to know how to delete the entire post.

[onewithhim]

[quote="polonius.advice"



As in Matthew 16:28
Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

We know that Jesus didn't "come in his Kingdom" until 1914, so what he said has another meaning. (If you have examined Daniel's prophecy in his chapter 4, you can see that God's Kingdom takes back complete control of the nations in that year, whereas before that He didn't interfere at all [I John 5:19].)

It has been said before, but I guess you missed it, that Jesus was referring to the vision that he introduced to Peter, James, and John on the mountain---his Transfiguration, which showed them what kind of glory he would have when he ruled from heaven over the earth (his Kingdom arrangement). Did you notice that this Transfiguration occurred immediately after he said that some there would not die until they saw his Kingdom glory?

Why did he say "some" of those standing there would not die before they saw his kingdom glory if he was saying that his kingdom would come in their life-times? If he meant that it would come in their life-times, why didn't he say ALL of you, or MOST of you? Because he knew he was going to take only SOME of them up on the mountain, and that was THREE of them---Peter, James, and John.

You have to read all of the surrounding verses to know what's going on. We can't take things out of context.



.

[onewithhim]

Douay-Rheims Bible

Matthew 10:23 "And when they shall persecute you in this city, flee into another. Amen I say to you, you shall not finish all the cities of Israel, till the Son of man come."

Here is yet another prophecy of his parousia by Jesus during his generation.

This has meaning for OUR time. His prophecies had meaning for his day AND our day. In Matthew 24 he described things that would happen to the physical city of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and those things would also occur in the last days. We know this because he said that "there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again." (Matt.24:21)

That didn't happen in 70 A.D. , obviously.

Matthew 10:23 is another example of what will be true in our time. Not every part of the earth will be witnessed to before he comes again to wipe out wickedness. That is OK, as God is merciful. Most of the earth HAS been witnessed to. We have records of it like no other religion has. But some places won't be reached. Nevertheless, they won't be destroyed just because they didn't hear.

You and others chastize and berate Jehovah's Witnesses, but I think this comes from just not knowing the deep things of the Bible. Either that or you don't care to really understand, but I don't think that is the case with you. Clergy has done an amazing job of misleading people with their shallow twaddle.


.

[onewithhim]

There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't.

Yes it did. The Parousia has been occuring invisibly since 1914. Only men and women of faith can discern this.

That's convenient. So those who do not, or cannot detect that the Parousia is already occurring are not "people of faith"?

And how do you define Parousia, anyway? Is your definition shared by the theologians of "Chistiandom"? Or are you dismissive of their definition because they are outside of the Watchtower fellowship.

I think that the theologians of Christendom have the meaning of "parousia" correct. It means "presence." Christendom, however, interprets "presence" as physically being somewhere. But that is not the whole meaning of "presence." Christ can be "present" and yet in heaven (where he sits at the right hand of the Father). His presence connotates his attention and that with his actions as well.

In fact, didn't he say that it is possible to be WITH us even though he remains in heaven?

"Look! I am WITH YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." (Matt.28:20)



.