Created immortal (indestructable)?

[JehovahsWitness]

To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?

- do you believe Satan is immortal?
- do you believe the wicked are immortal?

- do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?

- do you believe God cannot (does not have the ability to) destroy them (put an end to their existence)?

Why?


*by immortal I mean basically "indestructable"

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 60 by JehovahsWitness]

There is never any indication Satan is omnipresent, indeed if we believe scripture he most certainly is not as the bible speaks of him being thrown out of heaven, which would be impossible if he were omnipresent.

By the same token, neither is God, for the Bible speaks of him taking strolls elsewhere while Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit, then coming back all mystified as to what has happened.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 51 by Claire Evans]

I believe souls are eternal.

You forgot to say why.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

- do you believe Satan is immortal?

It is my understanding that Satan character in the Bible has his head crushed in the prophesies of Revelation and supposedly dies at that point.

If that's the case then he won't be immortal at that point.

That's a leap.
He just has less need of a hat.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 8 by Claire Evans]


[center]Who wants to live forever?[/center]

What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?

There isn't any. Genesis 3:3 says:

"...but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"

Obviously that means Adam and Eve were mortal. I don't know how you go from being immortal to mortal.

Right.. you can only go from MORTAL to immortal, if immortality is possible at all.

Good point.

If we are mortal, we are all going to die.
So, by that reasoning, God's threat of death was pretty craftily worded. He DIDN'T say that if you don't sin, you won't EVER die. Adam lived to 950.

Well, that was their decision to sin, after all.
Adam and Eve should NOT have used their free will that God seems so obsessed about.

Oh well... in any case, if everyone on the planet DIDN'T die, there would be a fair bit of an over-population problem by now.

So, I don't think that God meant everyone to live for ever on the PLANET.
Right?

I mean, it's only so big.

[dio9]

To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?

- do you believe Satan is immortal?
- do you believe the wicked are immortal?

- do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?

- do you believe God cannot (does not have the ability to) destroy them (put an end to their existence)?

Why?


*by immortal I mean basically "indestructable"

if one with God means one with immortality , we are even now immortal in this flesh. Some theologian or other said we we are spirits with a body rather than bodies with a spirit.

Where from is the generation of our spirit if not from immortality. As it is written God breathed his life into Adam. We are originally the life of God in humanity.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 60 by JehovahsWitness]

There is never any indication Satan is omnipresent, indeed if we believe scripture he most certainly is not as the bible speaks of him being thrown out of heaven, which would be impossible if he were omnipresent.

By the same token, neither is God, for the Bible speaks of him taking strolls elsewhere while Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit, then coming back all mystified as to what has happened.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe God is omnipresent as the bible speaks of God being in a particular part of heaven.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 66 by JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe God is omnipresent as the bible speaks of God being in a particular part of heaven.

A lesser god than some, then.

[William]

To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?

It seems to be implied in the Garden story when the warning 'you shall surely die' is given. The forms thus can be seen to have had no 'use-by' expiry date.

- do you believe Satan is immortal?

I think of Satan as being the Gods dark side. Not an actual being independent of GOD.

Useful for certain things. (like dogs are useful for assisting the shepherd in herding sheep)

This appears to be what goes on in relation to the stories within the Bible.

- do you believe the wicked are immortal?

I think of 'the wicked' as those who persist within GODs dark side and are essentailly what give god a dark side, as it were.
I do not think wickedness immortal. I think of it as ignorant reflex for the most part, and even when it is clearly done on purpose, ignorance is still a driving factor.

- do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?

No. I think all self conscious beings are aspects of the ONE Consciousness (which can be referred to as GOD) and in that - as with GOD - they cannot be destroyed.

- do you believe God cannot (does not have the ability to) destroy them (put an end to their existence)?

I think that GODs options are to allow for them to dwell in ignorance (dark) or asist them in their willful transformation into knowledge (light)

Why?

Because all consciousness derives from the Source consciousness and the Source consciousness was neither created nor can it be destroyed.

As such, whatever the form the consciousness experiences itself within (as an individuate aspect of the Whole) the form can be destroyed but not the consciousness within said form. It is eternal.

[Claire Evans]

It's up to the individual to decide what they want to believe. One must ask themselves if what I say makes sense. Do you believe that Satan is not omniscient and omnipresent?

Yes that is true. No I absolutely do NOT believe Satan is omniscient and omnipresent, firstly because that would make him equal to Almighty God YHWH Jehovah and the bible is very clear on the, Jehovah has no equal. Further the bible quite simply never attributes or indicates Satan is either omniscient or omnipresent, what (if anything) in scripture do you use to come to such a conclusion?

Acts 16.16-18

As we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had ya spirit of divination and brought her owners much gain by fortune-telling.

Divination: the practice of seeking knowledge of the future or the unknown by supernatural means.
"the Celtic art of divination"
synonyms: fortune telling, divining, foretelling the future, forecasting the future, prophecy, prediction, soothsaying, augury

How do demons and Satan foretell the future if they are not omniscient?


Matthew 16:23


23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.�

Clearly the presence of Satan was with them making him omnipresent. Satan can't tempt us if he doesn't know our thoughts and weaknesses.

Satan certainly is spoken of as being powerful but he is never spoken of as being able to read minds, for example hear the silent prayers of our minds, and what would be the point of tempting Jesus if, being omnipotent he already knew he was going to fail? There is never any indication Satan is omnipresent, indeed if we believe scripture he most certainly is not as the bible speaks of him being thrown out of heaven, which would be impossible if he were omnipresent.

Satan is not omnipotent nor is God. As for the Garden of Gethsemane, tempting Jesus but knowing He wouldn't go through with that tempting was meant to shake Jesus' faith and cause distress. That certainly worked. We also think of time as linear. I think the past, present and future all happen at once. We see the supernatural knowing what lies ahead but it's not referring to a future event in their dimension. It has already happened and but still needs to play out in this dimension.

Revelation said he was cast out of heaven but does that make it true? You even question Revelation. Can you not think for yourself independently of the Bible, please? It has been manipulated in some parts.

... so, where did he get his power from?

From God. God created the Angel that became Satan the Devil and when that angel rebelled, He (Jehovah ) "gave" in the sense of permitted him the freedom he (Satan) demanded.

So God created Satan knowing he would cause ultimate suffering in this world yet chose to make him anyway. And he gives into Satan's demands, too. Fancy that. We believe in two different Gods.

You contradict yourself by saying God gave Satan power The powers Satan has includes omniscient and omnipresence. Those are god-like qualities. So does Satan have supernatural powers or not?

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 51 by Claire Evans]

I believe souls are eternal.

You forgot to say why.

I don't believe it can't be destroyed like energy can't be destroyed.