JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

[Donray]

[Replying to post 80 by onewithhim]

Being born as the son of God makes him a god. Where do you get this is not true?

Do you think he is divine? Do you think he is seated next to God?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 80 by onewithhim]

Being born as the son of God makes him a god. Where do you get this is not true?

Do you think he is divine? Do you think he is seated next to God?

Have you followed ANYTHING that is being said on these threads? What "god" means has been explained many times. It is a title applied to ANY powerful, important individual, and it was understood that way in Jesus' day. Even Satan is called a god (2 Corinthians 4:4). He is powerful and influential at this point in time.

Jesus is definitely divine, as I have said many times. That doesn't mean that he is God or equal to God. And yes, I think that he is seated next to God. He is NEXT TO God. That means he is not the God he is seated next to.

[Donray]

[Replying to post 80 by onewithhim]

Being born as the son of God makes him a god. Where do you get this is not true?

Do you think he is divine? Do you think he is seated next to God?

Have you followed ANYTHING that is being said on these threads? What "god" means has been explained many times. It is a title applied to ANY powerful, important individual, and it was understood that way in Jesus' day. Even Satan is called a god (2 Corinthians 4:4). He is powerful and influential at this point in time.

Jesus is definitely divine, as I have said many times. That doesn't mean that he is God or equal to God. And yes, I think that he is seated next to God. He is NEXT TO God. That means he is not the God he is seated next to.

You do understand, I have never said the Jesus god is the same as God God. Jesus is a demigod and divine just like Hercules is.

What don't you understand. You believe he is the son of God and is divine. You want to tell Delete repeated word any important person according to you is a god. Therefore even with your logic Jesus is a god. So I don't understand. You are admitting that Jesus is a divine god. Is Jesus a "powerful, important individual?" If so he is a god according to you. Why all the disagreement when I said he is a god?

Your reply indicates that you consider him a god.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 83 by Donray]

I have already said that I understand Jesus to be "a god." That is VERY obvious from the years of discussions we have had on this forum and forums like this.

So, what are your closing comments about the theme of this thread? Do you view Jesus as YHWH or not?

[Donray]

[Replying to post 84 by onewithhim]

No, he is a separate god as the first Christians said a was. The first Christians worshipped both God and Jesus as gods. Just like the JWs do today.

[eldios]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

You have to understand what the invisible Word of God is, also known as the Spirit of God. Christ was created in the Word of God like Lucifer and the beast were, too. Those who receive the mind of Christ are the servants ( apostles and saints ) who testified to the knowledge of God called Christ during the first witness of the millennium reign of Christ. Jesus was the first servant to start the millennium reign of Christ. Then Peter was used by God after Jesus perished to testify to Christ and preach the gospel of God to his chosen believers. Then after Peter, many more servants were used to testify and end up preaching the same gospel ( voice ) of God.

II Thesalonians 2:
13: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
14: To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The gospel of God is the voice that all servants hear in their consciousness and are forced to obey all his commands until they are glorified. That is the moment God takes full control of their body and mind that is filled with knowledge called Christ, word by word with visions, dreams and spoken analogies. This is how they learned all the hidden secret things that no man has ever known before.

Chosen believers listen to the gospel of God and believe those words are coming from their Father in heaven called the Word of God.

John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 84 by onewithhim]

No, he is a separate god as the first Christians said a was. The first Christians worshipped both God and Jesus as gods. Just like the JWs do today.

Jesus was not to be worshipped AS GOD ALMIGHTY. He never was, and he is not respected that way now.

There is ONE GOD ALMIGHTY------> Jehovah


.

[Donray]

[Replying to post 84 by onewithhim]

No, he is a separate god as the first Christians said a was. The first Christians worshipped both God and Jesus as gods. Just like the JWs do today.

Jesus was not to be worshipped AS GOD ALMIGHTY. He never was, and he is not respected that way now.

There is ONE GOD ALMIGHTY------> Jehovah


.

Why do you fail to read what is written before making a comment?

Where did I ever say Jesus was or should be worship AS GOD ALMIGHTY????????

I said two gods one is a lesser god and therefore not GOD that killed all babies by drowning.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 84 by onewithhim]

No, he is a separate god as the first Christians said a was. The first Christians worshipped both God and Jesus as gods. Just like the JWs do today.

Jesus was not to be worshipped AS GOD ALMIGHTY. He never was, and he is not respected that way now.

There is ONE GOD ALMIGHTY------> Jehovah


.

Why do you fail to read what is written before making a comment?

Where did I ever say Jesus was or should be worship AS GOD ALMIGHTY????????

I said two gods one is a lesser god and therefore not GOD that killed all babies by drowning.

I apologize. I just realized that you were answering the OP. My bad.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself.

The various names of God in the O.T. signify aspects of his character, and are not indicators of hypostases or substances. There was no trinitarian concept in the O.T., and therefore to associate YHWH with "the Father" is anachronistic. There was no "the Father". In the O.T. God is described as 'a father' by metaphor, with Israel or Israel's king as 'a son'. Elsewhere he is described as a husband and Israel as his wife (a relationship which is transferred to Jesus in the N.T.).

YWHW was God's covenantal name; the name associated with his redemptive acts for Israel. Now, whatever Jesus' thoughts on his relation to God, it is clear that in the earliest Christian communities, evidenced in Paul through Revelation, Jesus is seen as carrying God's covenantal name--the name associated with his redemptive character: this was only a logical maneuver, since in and through Jesus' deeds, a new covenant was established.

Hence Paul refers to the Father (a N.T. concept) as 'theos' which in the LXX translates the Hebrew elohim; and he refers to Jesus, the son, as 'kurios', which in the LXX translatres the covenantal Hebrew name YHWH.