The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[tam]

Has He not been calling, gathering, and training the members of His Bride (His Body) since the very start, two thousand years ago?

Did I mention training? I thought I said "calling and gathering"?

How is that relevant?

It is relevant in that you are attributing words to me that I did not say, although I express myself far from perfectly I do not appreciate being misquoted or told that I said something that I did not.

A - I was not quoting you so you were not misquoted.

B - I had absolutely no ill or dishonest intent when I wrote 'and training', and certainly did not mean to attribute anything to you that you did not say. I simply asked a question based upon what you had said, while adding "and training" to my question, because Christ has also been doing that. Perhaps if I had added the words "indeed even" before the word "training", my intent would have been more clear?

I don't know. I am a bit taken aback by your reaction.

For an example of my intent:

Person A says:

Susie stepped up her game. She has been doing extra cleaning at work since last week.

Person B (who knows Susie has been doing even more than that and for a longer period of time asks):

Has Susie not been doing extra cleaning (as well as staying late each night to help out) since the very start of her employment, two years ago?

(Take out "training" if you want; the question is the same for the calling and gathering.)

No, YOU take it out, you put it in.

Very well.

Has He not been calling and gathering the members of His Bride (His Body) since the very start, two thousand years ago?

It is disengenuous to imply someone said something they did not and then instead of humbly acknowledge the mistake made attack the person as if they were being unduly unreasonable when they simply point this out. Don't you think?

??

I did not attack you. I simply ASKED a question (how is that relevant?) because I could not understand how my adding "and training" could make a difference to your answer. Does it? Does anything change?

(Training meaning teaching and disciplining)


Regardless, I have fixed the question - removed 'and training' - so that you can answer it.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

(edited to fix quote box)

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 319 by tam]

if you are as you say my servant why don't you just humby apologise for any implications that are inaccurate and move on? why the disengenuous (take it out if you want) instead of "Yes, that's right, you didn't say training" and leave it at that.

Anyway, I am willing to let it go as I see you are not feeling inclinded to do the above,

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 230 by McCulloch]

No I don't believe providing an everlasting paradise earth for all who want it, and perfect health as well as promising to resurrect (bring back to life on earth) their dead loved ones in perfect health so they can live and love them again is... "mean spirited" "incompetent" or "impotent" at all.



.... but if YOU believe that is the picture of "mean spiritedness" by all means, please do continue in that belief.

JW



RELATED POSTS

What will those ruling in the government (144,000) actually DO?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 622#878622

Really, how could anyone believe that the above is "mean-spirited"?

I think that the "mean spirited" was in regard to the fact that we have been waiting for the benefits sof the kingdom for so long; my attitude is that paradise will be worth the wait.

JW

[2timothy316]

I think that the "mean spirited" was in regard to the fact that we have been waiting for the benefits sof the kingdom for so long; my attitude is that paradise will be worth the wait.

JW

Also all wrongs done to people will corrected. Jehovah is a just and righteous God. There is nothing that can be done to us now or in the past or future that can't be remedied or healed. Folks today have no patience and don't understand that Jehovah is hoping those very people calling Him mean will repent and turn toward Him. That is what the wait is for....but Jehovah patience doesn't last forever.

[tam]

[Replying to post 319 by tam]

if you are as you say my servant why don't you just humby apologise for any implications that are inaccurate and move on? why the disengenuous (take it out if you want) instead of "Yes, that's right, you didn't say training" and leave it at that.

Anyway, I am willing to let it go as I see you are not feeling inclinded to do the above,

JW

As you are not inclined to answer the question? Your prerogative either way, of course, but I am left to suspect that this whole thing is really about avoiding the question (or any of the questions I asked). Make it about some perceived wrong and cast aspirations upon my character (ad hominem), then get all eyes on that instead of on the actual issue and content of my post. I understand why you might not want to discuss the content, mind you. Those things you listed happened long before 1914 and none of them can be used to support the JW position that the Kingdom started ruling in 1914.


And if you wish to speak about apologies, perhaps you should apologize for accusing me of attacking you (I did not) and of being disingenuous (insincere, dishonest)?

I'm not asking for an apology, though, and I have no desire to continue to argue over personal matters and suspicions. I would prefer to just get back to discussing the actual issue and leave all personal matters aside.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

And if you wish to speak about apologies, perhaps you should apologize for accusing me of attacking you (I did not) and of being disingenuous (insincere, dishonest)?

I felt attacked and I am not going to apologize for my feelings but I will publically recongnize my feelings are not your concern. I didn't say you were disingenouse I said it is disengenuouse to attack someone for simply asking for a correction. If you don't feel that is what you have done then the sentence doesn't apply to you. Anyway, as I said, I'm happy to let the point lie. You may have the last word if you wish.

Are you still my servant?

JW

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 217 by onewithhim]

Checkpoint concluded

When anyone repents, God's permissive will is done on earth in response to His command and to prayer, thus bringing that little bit closer His ultimate will.

You responded

You STILL have avoided answering my question. I will ask it one more time.

Jesus indicated that the Kingdom would bring restoration to the earth and the end of all suffering and death---which would be God's will. If the Kingdom has been ruling to its full potential, why is there still suffering and death?

Your question as posed was an impossible one to answer to your satisfaction, by either of us.

You see, your definition, "has been ruling to its full potential", is not one I have claimed, because it does not reflect scriptural claims or actual reality at this time.

Your question asks what is part of God's ultimate will, and can only come to pass when His kingdom is ruling to its full and ultimate potential. That is yet future, at and after te return of Christ.

OK. I think I'm getting it. Is this what you're saying?--That the tenets of the Kingdom are being practiced by believers now, but the actual setting up of the governmental auspices of Christ's rulership are in the future, after he comes to bring an end to man's rule?

Partly.

My position is, the kingdom has been governing in the midst of its enemies for 2000 years, and new sons enter it daily under its king, Jesus.

Believers are children of God, sons of the kingdom, and co-heirs with Christ.

Jesus has given his followers the keys to the kingdom, and these are manifested by the fruit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit in and through their lives.

The kingdom is here and now, but we await its fullness when Christ comes to end man's rule and we inherit all that has been promised.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 216 by onewithhim]

What is so hard to accept about what JW and I are trying to explain about the Kingdom?

Checkpoint replied

I do reject much of what you say about the kingdom.

That is because, to me, it is full of assumptions, misunderstandings, and claims that do not match what the New Testament conveys about the kingdom, whether present or future.

onewithhim then posted

Please be more specific. What assumptions and misunderstandings have I shown evidence of? How do my claims about the Kingdom not match what is said in the New Testament?

"Read my lips"[posts] on this thread for what has been written, and "watch this space" for what is yet to be written.

We have already debated on some specific points. Others may well arise.

"Read your lips"? Please....answer my question, because I do not know what those things are that you think are "assumptions" and "misunderstandings" on my part. You may have mentioned them in the past, but I don't remember....my apologies. Please bring me up to date on your viewpoint.

I said "you" as a corporate you; that is, "you JWs".

My viewpoint, as compared to that of JWs, is found in my posts 293 and 296.

[paarsurrey1]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

Please give a reference from the Jewish Bible where the phrase "Kingdom of God" has been literally mentioned. Right, please?
Regards

To add, please:

So, everyone here agrees that there is no mention of "Kingdom of God" in the OT Bible and or in the Jewish Bible. Right, please?


Regards

[tam]

Are you still my servant?

JW

I am a servant in Christ. Serving one another (as well as any who seek Him and His Father) is something Christ taught us to do (by His word and example), is it not?

So, yes.


May you have peace, as my Lord gives peace,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy