Why is homosexuality wrong?

[Greatest I Am]

Why is homosexuality wrong?

We all know what gays are and what they do. All of Gods laws are responses to a victim of some sort.

The one lied to is deceived.
The one who is killed is deprived of life.
The one stolen from looses his goods.

In the case of homosexuals there does not appear to be a victim or anyone hurt by the actions of the participant.

Why then does God discriminate against homosexuals?
It appears to go against His usual justice.

Regards
DL

[Biker]

I'm very glad that I am not judging homosexuals!
I am specifically judging the sin of homosexuality!

OK, I accept that you are not judging the homosexual person in a biblical sense. In the real world, however, of people trying to live together peacefully with all their different characters and behaviours, you most certainly *are* judging these people.

By labelling homosexuality a sin you are effectively telling homosexuals that they are bad people. You are effectively judging them. I actually couldn't care less whether this is a biblical judgment or not (I was simply amused that christians are so sure of god's word that they can't even agree what it is!).

I am concerned with living in the present and I am appalled that some people want to stigmatise a person's sexuality (something which anyway they have no control over). The fact that many of these critics derive this view from alleged laws of an unprovable supernatural being, makes me despair. I could at least respect your opinion that homosexuality is wrong if it were backed up by reasoned argument rather than religious delusion. All you appear to have, though, is a very old book written by fallible humans. I am astonished and disappointed that your only recourse is to continually quote from it. If yours is an example of 'loving your neighbour', then you and your god don't know what love is.

Dragon,

Ok I accept you are not judging the homosexual person

Thank you I'm glad we got that straight.

In the real world, however, of people trying to live together peacefully with all their different characters and behaviors, you most certainly are judging these people.

No I am not! Make your case? I have many posts in this and other homosexual threads. Please show me where?

By labeling homosexuality a sin you are effectively telling homosexuals that they are bad people.

No I am not! I have never told homosexuals they are bad people. I have said that gay activists infiltrating the church and subversively preying on groups within Christianity that are confused as to rightly dividing the word of truth, are bad people. I have said gay activists foisting their immorality upon the vast overwhelming majority who believe homosexuality is perversion, by trying to change laws against immoral behavior, are bad people! I have consistently said gay activists who publicly flaunt their sin, are bad people! I don't care what homosexuals do behind closed doors, just like toilet habits I don't want to see it or hear about it, or have laws passed in favor of it! Never have I said homosexuals are bad people! Again, show me where?
I have consistently said: homosexuality is sin, perversion, immoral, and an affront to God! Because that is what the Bible clearly says! It's not my idea, it's Gods!
I'm just agreeing with Him!

You are effectively judging them.

No I am not, prove your assertion!
I say I am merely agreeing with the inerrant word of God, thats all! And I am saying the word of God is right and your wrong!

(I was simply amused that christians are so sure of gods word that they can't even agree what it is!)

Define Christian?
All agree on the 66 volumes I am talking about!
Christianity has not been confused on the issue for over 2,000 years, consistently homosexuality is sin!

I am concerned with the living in the present and I am appalled that some people want to stigmatise a persons sexuality

I recognize you are "appalled". So what, homosexuality is still a sin.
I suppose Christians appall you and stigmatize "adulterers" "thieves" "effeminate" "murderers" "drunks" "fornicators" "swindlers" "liars" "coveters" and "revilers" too?
I would remind you that this is a website called Debating Christianity and Religion, and the the subforum is "Christianity and Apologetics"! The thread, "Why is Homosexuality wrong"! So if you are being appalled, I suggest another less appalling thread!
I am debating why homosexuality is wrong and your being appalled is of no issue!
It is your personal opinion, which is nice but would you mind addressing why gay is not wrong if that is your position?

(something which anyway they have no control over).

Would you mind substantiating that opinion? I don't believe you?

derive this view from alleged laws of an unprovable supernatural being,

Would you mind substantiating that personal opinion?

Makes me despair.

Again, I would remind you where you are posting, your going to despair alot, but quite frankly what does it have to do with the fact that homosexuality is wrong according to the inerrant Bible?

I could at least respect your opinion that homosexuality is wrong if it were backed up by reasoned argument

I suggest you go back and read this whole thread and the other one in the Theology Doctrine and Dogma subforum and you will find my argument both reasoned and logical!

All you appear to have, though, is a very old book written by fallible humans.

Yes? I believe thats all we have on the planet, fallible humans! Except for one, Jesus Christ! So, it would be true that is who was used to write this "very old book" that has never been proven to affirm anything but truth in all that it talks about!

I am astonished and disappointed that your omly recourse is to continually quote from it.

Again I would remind you where you are! Debating Christianity! Subforum Christianity and Apologetics! What else would one be doing?
I have put a challenge out many times! I will challenge you!
The inerrancy of Scripture means that Scripture in the original manuscripts does not affirm anything that is contrary to fact.
I agree with the statement!
Got anything?
Here is what the inerrant word of God says about the subject at hand: "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev. 18:22.

If yours is an example of 'loving your neighbor', then you and your god don't know what love is.

Again, unsubstantiated opinion!
Define love?
Why don't you tell me what love is?
Then explain why what I am doing is not?
And aren't you judging me wrongly?

Biker

[Biker]

.

OK, I accept that you are not judging the homosexual person in a biblical sense. In the real world, however, of people trying to live together peacefully with all their different characters and behaviours, you most certainly *are* judging these people.

By labelling homosexuality a sin you are effectively telling homosexuals that they are bad people. You are effectively judging them. I actually couldn't care less whether this is a biblical judgment or not (I was simply amused that christians are so sure of god's word that they can't even agree what it is!).

I am concerned with living in the present and I am appalled that some people want to stigmatise a person's sexuality (something which anyway they have no control over). The fact that many of these critics derive this view from alleged laws of an unprovable supernatural being, makes me despair. I could at least respect your opinion that homosexuality is wrong if it were backed up by reasoned argument rather than religious delusion. All you appear to have, though, is a very old book written by fallible humans. I am astonished and disappointed that your only recourse is to continually quote from it. If yours is an example of 'loving your neighbour', then you and your god don't know what love is.

Well said Dragon. You have fairly assessed the condemning aspect of homophobia.

The psychological aspects are another question. Perhaps there is merit to the suggestion that it stems from insecurity about ones own sexual orientation or as a cover for ones own deviances.

You have fairly assessed the condemning aspect of homophobia.

Unsubstantiated personal opinion! So what!
You have fairly assessed the condemning aspect of Christophobia!

The psychological aspects are another question.

Of what "psychological aspects" do you speak? Do you mean the "psychological aspects" of a mother mourning over the fact that her gay offspring will never give her a grandchild, or the stigma she feels when her gay offspring is involved in a perversion recognized by all of society since before the inerrant Bible was even written? I could go on but, is that the "psychological aspects" to which you refer?

Perhaps there is merit to the suggestion that it stems from insecurity about ones own sexual orientation-or as a cover for ones own deviances.

Perhaps you could substantiate your poorly spoken speculative conjecture. In other words prove it!
If one were to have deviances, the one who
a) acknowledges it
b) recognizes it is sin
c) asks for forgiveness
d) by faith receives forgiveness
e) "Goes and sins no more"
d) receives forgiveness by God
Those who don't, don't!

Biker

[Dragon]

I'm sorry if I've hit a raw nerve, Biker - I didn't set out to upset you.

In the real world, however, of people trying to live together peacefully with all their different characters and behaviors, you most certainly are judging these people.

No I am not! Make your case? I have many posts in this and other homosexual threads. Please show me where?

OK, you may not be judging homosexuals to their face, but on this forum (and no doubt in your conversations with people outside of it) the effect of pronouncing that homosexuality is an abomination is to make everyone who listens to you believe that you condemn homosexuals. How do you think a homosexual reading this thread is going to think? "Oh, that's OK: Biker thinks what I do is abominable but he's not really judging me." No, they are going to think "Here's another judgmental person with hurtful and dirty thoughts about my sexuality."

By labelling homosexuality a sin you are effectively telling homosexuals that they are bad people.

No I am not! I have never told homosexuals they are bad people.

See above. Note that I say "effectively telling homosexuals.." What's important is the effect of what you say, wherever you say it. If you are really serious about *not* judging people, you should keep your opinions to yourself.

I have said that gay activists infiltrating the church and subversively preying on groups within Christianity that are confused as to rightly dividing the word of truth, are bad people. I have said gay activists foisting their immorality upon the vast overwhelming majority who believe homosexuality is perversion, by trying to change laws against immoral behavior, are bad people! I have consistently said gay activists who publicly flaunt their sin, are bad people!

Never have I said homosexuals are bad people!

So it's OK to tell gay activists that they are bad people (ie. biblically judging them) but it's not OK to tell homosexuals the same thing? That would only make sense if *all* gay activists were heterosexual! Oops, I've caught you contradicting yourself.

I don't care what homosexuals do behind closed doors, just like toilet habits I don't want to see it or hear about it, or have laws passed in favor of it!

That does sound, though, as if you would like to see laws passed *against* it. That couldn't be right, though, because that would be judging these people, which you are against. I'm absolutely sure that you wouldn't vote for any political party that advocated such a law.

Although you attempt to split hairs with your words, you still judge and condemn the sinner when you judge and condemn the sin of homosexuality.

Another christian (with as much authority as you) seems to agree with me. Are you willing to repent your sin, Biker? Only god can judge (apparently).

I have to go now but I shall look at the rest of your post tomorrow.

[jamesearl]

This topic is really confusing, first the Christians say that we should love all, and everyone is loved by God, and blablabla.

And then, next second, HOMOSEXUALITY IS BAD, HOMOSEXUALS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOW TO GO TO SCHOOL WITH M KIDS.. and other jimjam... Ehm, is this not AGAINST the love you proclaim you have? Im confused, explain to me please.


If you really were loving and caring, you would embrace homosexuality, you would say, ok, i dont agree, but i still love you, give me a hug and take your boyfriend with you to the christmas party so we can all have a nice xmas.....


Yet, i see words of HATE.... I guess us evil Atheist with no moral are the ones that have to invite them over then.

[Easyrider]

This topic is really confusing, first the Christians say that we should love all, and everyone is loved by God, and blablabla.

And then, next second, HOMOSEXUALITY IS BAD...

It's a sin. Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Cor. 6:9-10. etc.

HOMOSEXUALS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOW TO GO TO SCHOOL WITH M KIDS.. and other jimjam...

It's not in the Bible and it's not what most of us believe.

Ehm, is this not AGAINST the love you proclaim you have? Im confused, explain to me please.

Love does not rejoice in iniquity (1 Cor. 13). Love does a neighbor no harm (like enticing one's neighbor into sin (Romans).

If you really were loving and caring, you would embrace homosexuality

See above. Plus love one's neighbor but not the sin.

Yet, i see words of HATE.... I guess us evil Atheist with no moral are the ones that have to invite them over then.

Have you ever studied the Bible or is all this just shooting from your hip?

[jamesearl]

This topic is really confusing, first the Christians say that we should love all, and everyone is loved by God, and blablabla.

And then, next second, HOMOSEXUALITY IS BAD...

It's a sin. Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Cor. 6:9-10. etc.

HOMOSEXUALS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOW TO GO TO SCHOOL WITH M KIDS.. and other jimjam...

It's not in the Bible and it's not what most of us believe.

Ehm, is this not AGAINST the love you proclaim you have? Im confused, explain to me please.

Love does not rejoice in iniquity (1 Cor. 13). Love does a neighbor no harm (like enticing one's neighbor into sin (Romans).

If you really were loving and caring, you would embrace homosexuality

See above. Plus love one's neighbor but not the sin.

Yet, i see words of HATE.... I guess us evil Atheist with no moral are the ones that have to invite them over then.

Have you ever studied the Bible or is all this just shooting from your hip?

Explain in what way homosexuality is harming anyone? No, better yet, Show Evidence that homosexuality is harmful?


Waiting eagerly.

[allansmith]

Explain in what way homosexuality is harming anyone? No, better yet, Show Evidence that homosexuality is harmful?

Waiting eagerly.

If I can have sex with my best mate, why can't I have sex with my grandmother, father, dog, duck, gum tree, lamp post and soda bottle?

I mean, what harm is it causing?

But would you, knowing I'd just had harmless sex with my car's exhaust pipe, want me to babysit your daughter?

Waiting eagerly.

[bernee51]

Explain in what way homosexuality is harming anyone? No, better yet, Show Evidence that homosexuality is harmful?

Waiting eagerly.

If I can have sex with my best mate, why can't I have sex with my grandmother, father, dog, duck, gum tree, lamp post and soda bottle?

Ah the old slippery slope fallacy. It's is a wonder no one introduced it previously...I guess it took a specialist.

But would you, knowing I'd just had harmless sex with my car's exhaust pipe, ...

With the motor running...?

[bernee51]

Ah but I don't consider them originals.

The proper terminology is "Autographs", and you are technically correct.

That's great...now can I have an autographed copy of Mark's autograph please..

What I want you to provide for me is the scribblings supposedly put down by Mark et al supposedly in the 1st century A.D.

Why? You base your beliefs on much less than the Bible provides and that can be affirmed!

You know full well I don't have beliefs Biker. And the one's I don't have are based on much more than the bible. It is too limited and limiting in terms of personal spiritual development.

That wa[s]y we can see how much has been added or changed by pious priests who believed they were doing Gods work.

That is easy! We have over 5,700 Greek manuscripts. All saying the same thing.

And what is the date range of these manuscripts...earliest to latest.

I don't suppose you could steer me in the direction of those could you?

I'd be happy to, get yourself a copy of the NASB and start reading Gods inerrant words to you!

I've read it and various others Biker.

If I may be so bold, are you going to India on a spiritual pilgrimage?

Life is a spiritual pilgrimage.

I ma going to India for several reasons. One of which is to spend a couple of weeks doing the four yogas.

... the inerrant Bible, which is not myth, and is historically accurate!

So you keep saying but I know of nothing other than your words to back up these assertions.


May you be happy, kind, loving and peaceful.

[allansmith]

Ah the old slippery slope fallacy. It's is a wonder no one introduced it previously...I guess it took a specialist.

I look in vain for an answer to my very reasonable questions, but find none.