Science Disproves Evolution

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Pahu
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Science Disproves Evolution

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Figure 16: Male and Female Birds. Even evolutionists admit that evolution seems incompatible with sexual reproduction. For example, how could organisms evolve to the point where they could reproduce before they could reproduce?

If sexual reproduction in plants, animals, and humans is a result of evolutionary sequences, an unbelievable series of chance events must have occurred at each stage.

a. The amazingly complex, radically different, yet complementary reproductive systems of the male and female must have completely and independently evolved at each stage about the same time and place. Just a slight incompleteness in only one of the two at any stage would make both reproductive systems useless, and the organism would become extinct.

b. The physical, chemical, and emotional systems of the male and female would also need to be compatible.a

c. The millions of complex products of a male reproductive system (pollen or sperm) must have an affinity for and a mechanical, chemical,b and electricalc compatibility with the eggs of the female reproductive system.

d. The many intricate processes occurring at the molecular level inside the fertilized egg would have to work with fantastic precision—processes that scientists can describe only in a general sense.d

e. The environment of this fertilized egg, from conception through adulthood and until it also reproduced with another sexually capable adult (who also “accidentally� evolved), would have to be tightly controlled.

f. This remarkable string of “accidents� must have been repeated for millions of species.

Either this series of incredible and complementary events happened by random, evolutionary processes, or sexual reproduction was designed by intelligence.

Furthermore, if sexual reproduction evolved even once, the steps by which an embryo becomes either a male or female should be similar for all animals. Actually, these steps vary among animals.e

Evolution theory predicts nature would select asexual rather than sexual reproduction.f But if asexual reproduction (splitting an organism into two identical organisms) evolved before sexual reproduction, how did complex sexual diversity arise—or survive?

If life evolved, why would any form of life live long beyond its reproductive age, when beneficial changes cannot be passed on? All the energy expended, supposedly over millions of years, to allow organisms to live beyond reproductive age would be a waste. For example, Why do human females live past menopause? If there is no potential for reproduction, then according to evolution, there is no evolutionary reason to exist.

Finally, to produce the first life form would be one miracle. But for natural processes to produce life that could reproduce itself would be a miracle on top of a miracle.g

a . In humans and in all mammals, a mother’s immune system, contrary to its normal function, must learn not to attack her unborn baby—half of whom is a “foreign body� from the father. If these immune systems functioned “properly,� mammals—including each of us—would not exist.

The mysterious lack of rejection of the fetus has puzzled generations of reproductive immunologists and no comprehensive explanation has yet emerged. [Charles A. Janeway Jr. et al., Immuno Biology (London: Current Biology Limited, 1997), p. 12:24.]

b . N. W. Pixie, “Boring Sperm,� Nature, Vol. 351, 27 June 1991, p. 704.

c . Meredith Gould and Jose Luis Stephano, “Electrical Responses of Eggs to Acrosomal Protein Similar to Those Induced by Sperm,� Science, Vol. 235, 27 March 1987, pp. 1654–1656.

u “When egg meets sperm in mammals, zinc sparks fly. ... [They] are needed to stimulate the transition from egg to embryo.� Ashley Yeager, “Images Reveal Secrets of Zinc Sparks,� Science News, Vol. 187, 10 January 2015, p. 14.

d . For example, how could meiosis evolve?

e . “But the sex-determination genes in the fruit fly and the nematode are completely unrelated to each other, let alone to those in mammals.� Jean Marx, “Tracing How the Sexes Develop,� Science, Vol. 269, 29 September 1955, p. 1822.

f . “This book is written from a conviction that the prevalence of sexual reproduction in higher plants and animals is inconsistent with current evolutionary theory.� George C. Williams, Sex and Evolution (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1975), p. v.

u “So why is there sex? We do not have a compelling answer to the question. Despite some ingenious suggestions by orthodox Darwinians (notably G. C. Williams, 1975; John Maynard Smith, 1978), there is no convincing Darwinian history for the emergence of sexual reproduction. However, evolutionary theorists believe that the problem will be solved without abandoning the main Darwinian insights—just as early nineteenth-century astronomers believed that the problem of the motion of Uranus could be overcome without major modification of Newton’s celestial mechanics.� Philip Kitcher, Abusing Science: The Case Against Creationism (Cambridge, Massachusetts: The MIT Press, 1982), p. 54.

u “The evolution of sex is one of the major unsolved problems of biology. Even those with enough hubris to publish on the topic often freely admit that they have little idea of how sex originated or is maintained. It is enough to give heart to creationists.� Michael Rose, “Slap and Tickle in the Primeval Soup,� New Scientist, Vol. 112, 30 October 1986, p. 55.

u “Indeed, the persistence of sex is one of the fundamental mysteries in evolutionary biology today.� Gina Maranto and Shannon Brownlee, “Why Sex?� Discover, February 1984, p. 24.

u “Sex is something of an embarrassment to evolutionary biologists. Textbooks understandably skirt the issue, keeping it a closely guarded secret.� Kathleen McAuliffe, “Why We Have Sex,� Omni, December 1983, p. 18.

u “From an evolutionary viewpoint the sex differentiation is impossible to understand, as well as the structural sexual differences between the systematic categories which are sometimes immense. We know that intersexes [organisms that are partly male and partly female] within a species must be sterile. How is it, then, possible to imagine bridges between two amazingly different structural types?� Nilsson, p. 1225.

u “One idea those attending the sex symposium seemed to agree on is that no one knows why sex persists.� [According to evolution, it should not.] Gardiner Morse, “Why Is Sex?� Science News, Vol. 126, 8 September 1984, p. 155.

g . “In the discipline of developmental biology, creationist and mechanist concur except on just one point—a work of art, a machine or a body which can reproduce itself cannot first make itself.� Pitman, p. 135.

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebo ... #wp5214829

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Post #61

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 59 by Pahu]
It might be a giant leap if the Bible was not authored by God. There is evidence it was:
Is this a pre-done list of links you're handing me, that you grabbed from somewhere else or were handed by someone else and have never looked at yourself?

First off, biblestudysite.com is down, it's domain being up for sale. I could buy it right now if I wanted to. This indicates to me that you're just using a pre-done list of sites, and are not actively aware of what these sites say.
The link you gave on RaptureForums doesn't go anywhere. Again, it looks like this is a pre-done list of links.
aboutbibleprophecy.com think that Dan Brown's novel 'The da Vinci Code' and its plotline of Jesus having descendants was meant in complete seriousness. Well...no. It's a novel, fiction.

I have to question your intellectual honesty here in debate, since it looks to me like you're completely unaware of the status or content of the links you give me, citing them as 'evidence' for what you believe.
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Post #62

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 60 by Pahu]

I've already spoken to you Pahu about ICR. Their approach to evidence (along with many of the sites you linked me to earlier) is to declare one book (the Bible) error-free in every word and THEN to go out and find evidence.
This indicates to me that you have literally no clue how to go about actually doing science.
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Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #63

Post by Neatras »

[Replying to post 60 by Pahu]

Another mistake of Creationism is assuming that just because something presents a function now, that it must have had that function in all previous ancestors of the organism. That is simply not the case. It's entirely possible for functions to change over time. You did not pay enough attention to what I said. Once an ERV becomes endogenous, it is just as viable as any other part of the genome to receive mutations and be altered over the course of history. Just because a retroviral genome is spliced into DNA doesn't mean it is an immutable, changeless entity.

What's more, saying "God did it" is just a patchwork response for what we see. You are actively CLAIMING that ERV's are not the result of retroviruses, which is patently false. We can see retroviruses in nature, how they operate, and what situations can result in an ERV forming. Not only that, evolutionary theory is the only method of explaining how ERV's observed in nature came about.

I understand you have no intention of daring to look at a website that isn't strictly Creationist, but I'll post this link anyway: http://www.evolutionarymodel.com/ervs.htm

I'd love to hear what your evidence is for how certain ERV's can't have resulted from retroviruses. Especially since their entire structure is remarkably similar to retroviral RNA. It's pitiful that we can have people making claims without supplanting them with evidence in such a clear-cut case.

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Post #64

Post by Pahu »

rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 59 by Pahu]
It might be a giant leap if the Bible was not authored by God. There is evidence it was:
Is this a pre-done list of links you're handing me, that you grabbed from somewhere else or were handed by someone else and have never looked at yourself?

First off, biblestudysite.com is down, it's domain being up for sale. I could buy it right now if I wanted to. This indicates to me that you're just using a pre-done list of sites, and are not actively aware of what these sites say.
The link you gave on RaptureForums doesn't go anywhere. Again, it looks like this is a pre-done list of links.
aboutbibleprophecy.com think that Dan Brown's novel 'The da Vinci Code' and its plotline of Jesus having descendants was meant in complete seriousness. Well...no. It's a novel, fiction.

I have to question your intellectual honesty here in debate, since it looks to me like you're completely unaware of the status or content of the links you give me, citing them as 'evidence' for what you believe.
I appreciate your bringing that to my attention. I have not checked those for quite awhile. Are they the only ones you found? How about the others? Don't they prove the facts?

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Post #65

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 65 by Pahu]

No they don't. Many of them declare one book to be infallible and then go out and look for evidence in support of it. They do not ever allow for the possibility of the Bible being wrong, in whole or in part.
You can give me links a mile long, and I wouldn't trust them, because at the back of mind, while reading them, I would be asking myself what evidence have they ignored and rejected that contradicts their Bible?

I also found contradictions between the sites you listed. Some of them reject the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and others accept it. Now I'm wondering what Pahu is supporting here. He's giving me a list of sites to look at, saying what they say is true...only for them to be at odds with one another.
This looks to me like you only have a surface level understanding of what it is the people on your 'side' of the debate are saying, and only ever bother to look at what they have to say regarding science, all the while trumpeting them all as speaking 'Truth'.
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I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #66

Post by Pahu »

rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 65 by Pahu]

No they don't. Many of them declare one book to be infallible and then go out and look for evidence in support of it. They do not ever allow for the possibility of the Bible being wrong, in whole or in part.
Since the Bible was authored by God, how can it be wrong?
You can give me links a mile long, and I wouldn't trust them, because at the back of mind, while reading them, I would be asking myself what evidence have they ignored and rejected that contradicts their Bible?
It looks like you have closed your mind and are unwilling to accept any possibility that contradicts your preconceptions. There have been numerous attempts to show contradictions in the Bible but they have all been answered.
I also found contradictions between the sites you listed. Some of them reject the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and others accept it.
There are many differences of opinion about what the Bible is teaching, but that does not refute the Bible's divine authorship.
Now I'm wondering what Pahu is supporting here. He's giving me a list of sites to look at, saying what they say is true...only for them to be at odds with one another.
In what way are they at odds with one another? Take another look:

1. Archaeology confirms the historical accuracy of the Bible:

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/the_rocks_cry_out.html
http://christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a008.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/home.html
http://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/the-bi ... cal-record

2. The Bible is not a science book, yet is scientifically accurate:

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/scienti ... bible.html
http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

3. The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies:

http://www.100prophecies.com/
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/
http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/bible ... filled.htm
http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophe ... lity-bible
http://www.allabouttruth.org/Bible-Prophecy.htm
This looks to me like you only have a surface level understanding of what it is the people on your 'side' of the debate are saying, and only ever bother to look at what they have to say regarding science, all the while trumpeting them all as speaking 'Truth'.
I don't think so.

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Post #67

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Pahu wrote: Since the Bible was authored by God, how can it be wrong?
"Authored by God"?

That is quite a claim. If anyone considers that a true statement, kindly provide substantiating evidence (something more than "the Bible says so" or "Christians say so" or "I think so").
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Post #68

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 66 by Pahu]
Since the Bible was authored by God, how can it be wrong?
I'd love to know just how the heck you figured that one out. What is the difference between a non-God book and a God book? Think of this as something on the order of asking what's the difference between these two shapes, why do you call that one a square and why do you call that one a circle?
It looks like you have closed your mind and are unwilling to accept any possibility that contradicts your preconceptions. There have been numerous attempts to show contradictions in the Bible but they have all been answered.
Re-read again what I wrote. It is the people you link to that have preconceptions. They start out declaring the Bible to be infallible, error free and after that go out looking for evidence. Any evidence that is found that contradicts the Bible is tossed aside.
As for me being close minded - no. It is that I cannot trust people or sites that admit to having preconceptions themselves, that more or less (depending on the site) admit to mishandling or discarding evidence that doesn't agree with what they already believe.
Would you trust as a professor someone who comes into class and says he can never be wrong, he is infallible, that his book that he brings with him is error-free, no matter what anyone may discover in the future?
There are many differences of opinion about what the Bible is teaching, but that does not refute the Bible's divine authorship.
So now we have a situation where many people are telling me the Bible is infallible, error free, what it says and what it teaches... and yet, they disagree with themselves as to what it teaches.
Is inplainsite.org correct when they say the Bible is infallible and there is no Holy Spirit...is christiananswers.net correct at the same time when they say "there is one God, eternally existent in three persons, namely: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

How can the same book that is supposedly error free and infallible yield two different answers about the exact same thing?
Imagine you're in foreign language class learning French, and you have two different teachers in on the same day (for some reason). The two teachers write on the board "Je m'appelle " and then wait for a moment. They then tell you what that means by finishing the sentence, only for Teacher A to write "Je m'appelle Paul" and Teacher B to write "Je m'appelle boutique".
Don't forget, BOTH teachers say they are infallible, error free.
In what way are they at odds with one another? Take another look:
I already explained to you. Some are pointing to the Bible, saying it is infallible, error free and saying there is no Holy Spirit. Others are pointing to the Bible, saying it is infallible, error free and saying there is a Holy Spirit. Both groups cannot be correct.
Giving me the list again does not solve your conundrum. I've already seen that list. If I need it again, I can just go back to earlier posts.
This indicates to readers that you have nothing to offer, to solve the problems I have pointed out. You're at a point where your creationist websites simply do not have an answer to give you, you simply do not know what to do.
I don't think so.
Then how come you never caught the differences in their teachings, like I did, in two minutes of searching?
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #69

Post by Pahu »

Zzyzx wrote: .
Pahu wrote: Since the Bible was authored by God, how can it be wrong?
"Authored by God"?

That is quite a claim. If anyone considers that a true statement, kindly provide substantiating evidence (something more than "the Bible says so" or "Christians say so" or "I think so").
The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies:

http://www.100prophecies.com/
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/
http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/bible ... filled.htm
http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophe ... lity-bible
http://www.allabouttruth.org/Bible-Prophecy.htm

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Post #70

Post by Pahu »

rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 66 by Pahu]
Since the Bible was authored by God, how can it be wrong?
I'd love to know just how the heck you figured that one out. What is the difference between a non-God book and a God book? Think of this as something on the order of asking what's the difference between these two shapes, why do you call that one a square and why do you call that one a circle?
The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies:

http://www.100prophecies.com/
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/
http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/bible ... filled.htm
http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophe ... lity-bible
http://www.allabouttruth.org/Bible-Prophecy.htm
It looks like you have closed your mind and are unwilling to accept any possibility that contradicts your preconceptions. There have been numerous attempts to show contradictions in the Bible but they have all been answered.
Re-read again what I wrote. It is the people you link to that have preconceptions. They start out declaring the Bible to be infallible, error free and after that go out looking for evidence. Any evidence that is found that contradicts the Bible is tossed aside.
As for me being close minded - no. It is that I cannot trust people or sites that admit to having preconceptions themselves, that more or less (depending on the site) admit to mishandling or discarding evidence that doesn't agree with what they already believe.
Would you trust as a professor someone who comes into class and says he can never be wrong, he is infallible, that his book that he brings with him is error-free, no matter what anyone may discover in the future?
No, but I can trust God who provides hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies.
There are many differences of opinion about what the Bible is teaching, but that does not refute the Bible's divine authorship.
So now we have a situation where many people are telling me the Bible is infallible, error free, what it says and what it teaches... and yet, they disagree with themselves as to what it teaches.
Is inplainsite.org correct when they say the Bible is infallible and there is no Holy Spirit...is christiananswers.net correct at the same time when they say "there is one God, eternally existent in three persons, namely: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

How can the same book that is supposedly error free and infallible yield two different answers about the exact same thing?
It doesn't. The interpretations are different.
In what way are they at odds with one another? Take another look:
I already explained to you. Some are pointing to the Bible, saying it is infallible, error free and saying there is no Holy Spirit. Others are pointing to the Bible, saying it is infallible, error free and saying there is a Holy Spirit. Both groups cannot be correct.
True, but their different interpretations do not change the fact that the Bible is error free.

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