What is spirit.

[dio9]

God formed Man out of the earth. and breathed into him the breath of life. and Man became a living being. Genesis 2:7
The dust returns to the earth as it was. and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7
You do not die when the body dies the spirit is everlasting infinite standing on the ground of eternity. Bhagavad-Gita

All things are made of spirit and body. Spirit is the infinite and eternal part ( as per Genesis) Yang to the bodies Yin. Spirit is contagious it passes from one to another. it is greater than and not completely contained by the body. It resonates out from a person to his environment like neighboring tuning forks resonate at the same frequency. That's why Jesus said love your neighbor , because it will do you good. Spirit is recognized by all faiths a common thread running through them . Spirit is in you and affecting you everywhere you go. We already live in the spiritual world.

Question for discussion :
First of all , do you believe or feel you have a spirit? (if not please don't answer 3 and 4)

Are you a body with a spirit or a spirit with a body?
Do we generate our spirit or is spirit something eternal given to us?

feel free to comment on anything posted above.

[marco]

The word "spirit" is used in various ways in the bible; the examples given in the OP reference God's (holy) spirit.

God's spirit (also described as "the breath of life" when connected to living beings) is his active force, his power. Its the same force that essentially keeps all living things alive. It is the same force/power that God used to create the universe. It isn't an invisible "part" of a human and doesnt contain the personality, it is simply the force or power that animates all living things.

Some of this extrapolation and interpretation may well be correct. If as you say "sprit" is used in "various ways" it suggests that trying to pin it down to one's own preferred definition is incorrect.

The soul of course is regarded as a spirit, unseen by human eyes. The soul survives when the flesh is gone - or so most believers think, and it's a nice idea that makes sense of man. The verse that seems to confuse folk who want to discard that idea is in Genesis:



"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. " KJV

I can see why somebody would take these simple, imaginative words of a figurative description of creation - God playing with dirt is obviously symbolic of man's worthlessness rendered into grace by the divine - and deduce that soul means person. (As in: Not a soul survived the fire.) If we take soul to be "person" the sentence reads as "man became a living man" as if dust had the name "man". Dust may have become a man but that was not written. No, it is clear that the soul aspect of man existed as an idea from God before its transformation. But in any case it would be silly to build a theology on the fictional account of creation and treat symbolism as if it happened in a moment of history.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 11 by marco]

Fair enough we all interpret in our own ways, I have presented my own others are free to view things differently. I personally am not attracted to such a literal reading as you seem to be but totally see where you are coming from and fully and humbly acknowledge your very insightful observations.

Thank you again for your input, be well,

JW

[marco]

Our words need not be eternalized to have purpose. Our lives are short and often our legacy follows just as fast, but a valuable purpose can be left in our wake. A short-lived purpose can have great effects in the long run.

Purpose of course can be short-term - looking after those we love until we can love them no more. There is often regret that death calls before we have achieved. The great Russian poet, Pushkin, expressed his thoughts on life very well as:

Дар напра�но, подарок �лучайно: vain and random gift of life - and asked why it was given to him. Those who have faith clothe themselves in the purpose of adoring God. As a little boy I learned why God made me:
To know him, love and serve him in this world and to be happy with him for ever in the next.
The first two are unattainable. Service, in Christ's interpretation, is possible if it simply means helping others. Eternal happiness is nonsensical, especially when it follows a few months of infant suffering then death.

We are too easily deceived.

[marco]

I personally am not attracted to such a literal reading as you seem to be but totally see where you are coming from and fully and humbly acknowledge your very insightful observations.

Thank you, JW, for your disarming courtesy. I thought I was taking a non-literal reading of the Genesis account while you were regarding the details as literal events. It may be we are making mountains of molehills and the truth has sailed off without us.

Best regards.

[McCulloch]

Thanks for your contribution but if you don't believe or feel you have a spirit why bother.

I am sorry to intrude, I was under the apparently mistaken impression that this was a debate forum focused on determining truth using facts, evidence and sound reasoning. Don't let me interrupt your theological speculation.

But it was posted in the Christianity & Apologetics forum on a debate site.

We are debating Christianity, pro and con, for and against, not debating with the assumption that Christianity is true.
…
This is a debating forum, not a convenient place to overtly proselytize.
…
If you make any claims, be ready to support your claims with evidence if asked.

[marco]

Some faiths believe the spirit ascends to heaven , some the spirit descends to hell , some that it merges with God, some that it sleeps until the resurrection, that it transmigrates to another body and some that it goes to sleep and never wakes up. whatever but I do firmly believe spirit what makes us living beings, not dust.

Who knows where the soul goes? Pythagoras thought it went into beasts. Emperor Hadrian addressed his soul in a poem and wondered where it would go on his death. We still don't know. When I compose a sonnet and arrogantly believe it contains more than the sum total of my worthless atoms I think I am tapping into the immortal part of me. Maybe not.

Horace, dead some 2 millennia, put it this way:
Exegi monumentum aere perennius: I have built a monument more lasting than bronze.

And perhaps he did. In a different way folk think the soul survives and in extremis makes contact with the living. Prince William felt the presence of his mother, Diana, at his wedding, but maybe that's not so surprising.

Of course we could all be seduced by that dastardly thing called hope.

[JP Cusick]

God formed Man out of the earth. and breathed into him the breath of life. and Man became a living being. Genesis 2:7
The dust returns to the earth as it was. and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7
You do not die when the body dies the spirit is everlasting infinite standing on the ground of eternity. Bhagavad-Gita

All things are made of spirit and body. Spirit is the infinite and eternal part ( as per Genesis) Yang to the bodies Yin. Spirit is contagious it passes from one to another. it is greater than and not completely contained by the body. It resonates out from a person to his environment like neighboring tuning forks resonate at the same frequency. That's why Jesus said love your neighbor , because it will do you good. Spirit is recognized by all faiths a common thread running through them . Spirit is in you and affecting you everywhere you go. We already live in the spiritual world.

In ancient days people were very close to death, as they saw people die and then they had to carry the corpse and dispose of the body.

One thing determined by archeology is that humans buried our dead from as far back as history can be found.

As such when a person dies then yes we really can see or even feel the life go out of the body.

We might call it as spirit or as life-energy or whatever but it leaves the body when the person dies.

It can be seen as it happens.

Question for discussion :
First of all , do you believe or feel you have a spirit?
Are you a body with a spirit or a spirit with a body?
Do we generate our spirit or is spirit something eternal given to us?

I am happy to call it as a spirit, but I reject the confusing notion of a soul.

We know from studying Ghosts (different from Demons or Angels or other spirits) that Ghosts have some connection to people that have died, but the Ghost can not travel far (other spirits can travel), and Ghosts have very limited intelligence as like they just have a vague memory of the person who died, and so the Ghosts are not really functionally alive.

As such the spirit may indeed come back to life, or be born again, or reincarnated, or my own favorite as science found that we move through other dimensions - Parallel Universes.

(if not please don't answer 3 and 4)

I can not tell if it was done on purpose or not ~ but I like it anyway.

There is no number 2, or is it just invisible?

The number 2 question is like the spirit.

And there is a blank space for the second question, so it just can not be seen.

Beautiful.

[dio9]

Thanks for your contribution but if you don't believe or feel you have a spirit why bother.

I am sorry to intrude, I was under the apparently mistaken impression that this was a debate forum focused on determining truth using facts, evidence and sound reasoning. Don't let me interrupt your theological speculation.

But it was posted in the Christianity & Apologetics forum on a debate site.

We are debating Christianity, pro and con, for and against, not debating with the assumption that Christianity is true.
…
This is a debating forum, not a convenient place to overtly proselytize.
…
If you make any claims, be ready to support your claims with evidence if asked.

OK tell me why yo don't believe you have a spirit.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 17 by JP Cusick]

One thing determined by archeology is that humans buried our dead from as far back as history can be found.

Depends on what you mean by "human." There is no undisputable evidence for members of the genus homo burying their dead until about 100,000 years ago. Neanderthals certainly engaged in this practice, and of course homo sapiens, but there is no evidence that other homo species buried their dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burial

As such when a person dies then yes we really can see or even feel the life go out of the body.

You can "see" that a person has died by the lack of any movement, no pulse or breathing, etc. But you can't see "the life go out of the body." What does that even mean? Awareness, consciousness, physical and mental bodily functions, etc. are all controlled by the brain. Consciousness is a manifestation of normal brain activity, and the ability to breathe, see, think, and be "alive" are as well. At death the brain ceases to function, so all of these manifestations of brain activity also cease, and that is when "life goes out of the body." It is not anything more than that as far as we know from scientific understanding of human physiology. A "spirit" or "soul" has never been shown to exist in any form or format ... these are imaginary.

We know from studying Ghosts (different from Demons or Angels or other spirits) that Ghosts have some connection to people that have died, but the Ghost can not travel far (other spirits can travel), and Ghosts have very limited intelligence as like they just have a vague memory of the person who died, and so the Ghosts are not really functionally alive.

Studying ghosts? Ghosts have also never been shown to exist, so how can they possibly be studied? And how can you assign characteristics to them like limited intelligence and limited mobility, etc.? Ghosts are just as imaginary as spirits and souls, yet you can ascribe properties to them? How does that work?

[marco]

but the Ghost can not travel far (other spirits can travel), and Ghosts have very limited intelligence as like they just have a vague memory of the person who died, and so the Ghosts are not really functionally alive.

I'm not sure we can actually be as analytic as this on the topic of ghosts. Arthur Koestler left all his money to the setting up of a Chair of Parapsychology which Edinburgh University eventually accepted amid horror from those in academia. If things happen that have no explanation one would have thought there is a duty to investigate. In any event ghosts have a long history - I recall reading one of Pliny's letters about a haunting. There are plenty of accounts of odd occurrences but they are usually called delusional which I think is rather unfair.

Given we can talk of n-dimensions in mathematics, without seeing their inhabitants, I don't discount the existence of other worlds that might, in freakish events, overlap our own. Perhaps in the brave new world of the future, we shall know. Then we will be better equipped to define "spirit".