Why is god in hiding?

[JJ50]

If the Biblical god exists why does it hide away, making its existence a matter of faith not reality?

Those who claim there is evidence that god exists, can never provide that evidence.

[marco]

[Replying to post 7 by dianaiad]

Verifiable evidence would be for god to put in an appearance so all humanity could see it and there could be no doubt it exists.

Yes, I think along these lines too. However, it seems statistically certain that life exists in the trillions of galaxies we believe surround us. It seems absurd to suppose that we happen to be the most intelligent life form, and so when something far superior appeared to us all and declared itself a god, how could we dispute it? Or course there is the question of why an intelligence would wish to deceive us.

To be fair it really amounts to accepting, on faith, or doubting any god exits. We cannot have certainty either way.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 7 by dianaiad]

Verifiable evidence would be for god to put in an appearance so all humanity could see it and there could be no doubt it exists.

I think that, just perhaps, you didn't read the post to which this one is a reply, or at least, you didn't read it all the way to the end.

If God DID put in just such an appearance, do you think that everybody would accept it as real, and that God was the One doing the appearing?

I don't.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 7 by dianaiad]

Define 'verifiable.'

Really. What would you consider 'verifiable' evidence?

Hey Margret, it's me, God.
Only to everybody.


[Replying to post 10 by 1213]

Are you looking right things? When you say God is hiding, what do you think you should see, when you see God? What are you seeking, if you seek God?

How about something to distinguish Him from, say, unicorns?
What should we see?
How about something capable of performing his press-work. The problem is God is impossible, so there is no way to see impossible - impossible doesn't exist.

According to the Bible, God is spirit and love. What do you think you should see, when you see spirit and love?

If God is love, then he is only our feelings. Then... so... what?

[William]

My idea of GOD is not hiding.

Of course the problem is in how one chooses to define GOD.

If one defines GOD as able to be a voice from the sky which can be heard by everyone and calls everyone by name and says 'here I am' then GOD becomes a voice in the sky.

What next? "Don't do that Willum, because it is not a good thing to do" then we can rely on a voice in the sky to be our conscience?

Then it can be argued we don't need a voice in the sky telling us it is GOD and telling us what to do and what not to do. We have common sense and are conscientious.

Strangely enough conscience also presents as a voice of reason.

Nope. I don't think a voice in the sky would be evidence of GOD. I think it would produce people who will dream up explanations as to what else the phenomena could be.
It probably would contradict the laws of physics as well.

[Justin108]

As well, I learned quite awhile ago that for a great many of those who demand such 'verifiable' proof simply move the goal posts when presented with something that MIGHT be considered such.

If God speaks to me in an unmistakable, audible manner the same way two people would talk to each other, I will believe in him. I promise to not move the goalpost after that.

If God DID put in just such an appearance, do you think that everybody would accept it as real, and that God was the One doing the appearing?

I don't.

Maybe there will be a handful of people who are too stubborn to even believe then, but why should the rest of us be punished for their stubbornness? I would gladly believe in God under those circumstances. Why is God withholding him from be because some other guy would persistently doubt?

You seem to be implying one of two things
1. It is literally impossible for certain people to believe
2. Some people just don't want to believe and stubbornly deny God's existence, even though they secretly know God exists

Do you believe either of these to be the case?

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 7 by dianaiad]

Verifiable evidence would be for god to put in an appearance so all humanity could see it and there could be no doubt it exists.

And then what?? All will be well in the world?

That's a Red Herring and completely irrelevant to the discussion. The OP doesn't ask "how can God make everything in the world super great?", he simply asked "why does God hide?".

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 7 by dianaiad]

Verifiable evidence would be for god to put in an appearance so all humanity could see it and there could be no doubt it exists.

Yes, I think along these lines too. However, it seems statistically certain that life exists in the trillions of galaxies we believe surround us. It seems absurd to suppose that we happen to be the most intelligent life form, and so when something far superior appeared to us all and declared itself a god, how could we dispute it?

In order to qualify as God, the lifeform would have to literally be perfect. It would have to be able to do literally anything. If a lifeform were to come to Earth, it would have to immediately know every language, be able to do anything as demonstration of its divinity, should be able to turn coal into gold, water into beer (or wine if it wanted to do a call back), and all this with no effort at all. While I do believe that there may be life out there more advanced than us, I highly doubt it would be this advanced.

To be fair it really amounts to accepting, on faith, or doubting any god exits. We cannot have certainty either way.

You seem to suggest that, because some people are hyper skeptic beyond reason, that God shouldn't bother?

[marco]

In order to qualify as God, the lifeform would have to literally be perfect. It would have to be able to do literally anything. If a lifeform were to come to Earth, it would have to immediately know every language, be able to do anything as demonstration of its divinity, should be able to turn coal into gold, water into beer (or wine if it wanted to do a call back), and all this with no effort at all. While I do believe that there may be life out there more advanced than us, I highly doubt it would be this advanced.

I think your humble requirements could well be satisfied by advanced technology. I have no idea what shape or form or capabilities someone incomparably more intelligent than I would have. I can imagine how someone, with today's technology, would be regarded by the Britons as they waited to face Caesar. If the visitor blew Caesar's ship from the sea and showed them a video of Rome, they'd bow. God is perhaps nothing more than the best we could ever hope to be. And surely somewhere, someone has achieved that. We needn't handicap him with the Adam nonsense or his stone scratchings for commandments or his nuclear work in Sodom.

You seem to suggest that, because some people are hyper skeptic beyond reason, that God shouldn't bother?

I don't know how you deduce that. I think the possession of a corporeal frame to house our spirit and our talents will eventually be unnecessary, so invisibility might be a commonplace a few million years from now - if that. I should imagine that a very advanced being would be able to make us think what he wanted us to think. That is done, even today, by folk less than divine.

Interesting questions.

[Justin108]

In order to qualify as God, the lifeform would have to literally be perfect. It would have to be able to do literally anything. If a lifeform were to come to Earth, it would have to immediately know every language, be able to do anything as demonstration of its divinity, should be able to turn coal into gold, water into beer (or wine if it wanted to do a call back), and all this with no effort at all. While I do believe that there may be life out there more advanced than us, I highly doubt it would be this advanced.

I think your humble requirements could well be satisfied by advanced technology.

Assuming it's possible, these lifeforms would have to hide the fact that they're achieving these things using technology. It's also important that whatever it is they do, they do it instantly. If there is a piece of technology that can turn coal into gold, I'd expect it to take a while. Furthermore, my examples may have been quite precise, but these lifeforms would have to do literally anything we ask in order to trick us into thinking they are in fact God. Again, while I agree with you that it's possible for lifeforms more advanced than us to exist, I highly doubt that a lifeform so advanced as to be able to literally do anything exists unless that lifeform is God.

As for using advanced technology - no matter how advanced technology is, it still needs to abide by the laws of nature. Therefore, any lifeform, regardless of how advanced they are, should not be able to do the impossible. God, however, could do the impossible.

I can imagine how someone, with today's technology, would be regarded by the Britons as they waited to face Caesar. If the visitor blew Caesar's ship from the sea and showed them a video of Rome, they'd bow.

The difference is that, while today's technology is incredibly advanced by comparison, it is still very limited. If someone back in Caesar's day were to approach this "god" with advanced technology (today's technology) and requested that "god" make it rain, for example, the "god" would not be able to. There's a difference between incredibly advanced technology, and literally omnipotent technology. While I can fathom an alien race with things like teleportation, limb regeneration, a cure for all disease, etc., to expect an alien race to be literally omnipotent thanks to their technology is a bit of a stretch.

[marco]

As for using advanced technology - no matter how advanced technology is, it still needs to abide by the laws of nature. Therefore, any lifeform, regardless of how advanced they are, should not be able to do the impossible. God, however, could do the impossible.

Yes, it seems you want a pre-packaged God made to your specifications. Mythologies have gods appearing as old women. And I don't know if gods dance to order. If a very powerful being comes to my door illustrating very mysterious things I will be happy to call him God, if that's what he wants.

While I can fathom an alien race with things like teleportation, limb regeneration, a cure for all disease, etc., to expect an alien race to be literally omnipotent thanks to their technology is a bit of a stretch.

And which text requires God to be omnipotent? He may have died after the toil of creation. It's probably best to keep an open mind and prepare to be pleasantly surprised. There is a lovely story of a small girl drawing for her teacher. The teacher asks: "Mary, what are you drawing?" And she says: "I am drawing God." Teacher says: "But nobody knows what God looks like." And the wise little girl replies: "Well they will soon."