Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

[Elijah John]

Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.�

There have been many failed predictions of the "2nd coming of Christ". Most notably, Charles Taze Russell who predicted Jesus would return in 1914. When he didn't return, the prediction was revised to mean an "invisible return".

For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?

How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?

[Elijah John]

The problem with the "Transfiguration" explanation, is that there are no angels, and no judgement, as is spoken of in verse 27.

Seems pretty clear Jesus was speaking of his "2nd coming".

[Tart]

The problem with the "Transfiguration" explanation, is that there are no angels, and no judgement, as is spoken of in verse 27.

Seems pretty clear Jesus was speaking of his "2nd coming".

Actually there was Angels in the transfiguration...

Jesus was in His fathers Glory, standing among the angles of Moses, and Elijah.

"2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus." (Transfiguration Matthew 17)

"5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!� (Transfiguration Matthew 17)


Further more, as i quoted in the other thread.

The Disciples even reference the transfiguration as a miraculous sign to them, in their epistles, quoting saying they saw Jesus receive "honor" and "glory" from God the Father during the transfiguration. (Epistle of Peter)

17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.�18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
(2 Peter 1)

I think the Passage in question, from the original post, is pretty clearly talking about the transfiguration, where the Disciples witnessed as a big sign from God and even referenced it in letters they wrote to one another.

[Checkpoint]

Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.�

For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?

Not so fast.

No, Jesus did not mistakenly predict his return in the passage quoted.

Rather he told them what was about to happen right there, right then.

The verse you quoted says "some standing here", and the very next verse then identifies those "some" as being "Peter, James, and John", 17:1.

Jesus was not mistaken, and knew what he was saying, and Matthew knew what he was writing.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

I suppose it comes down to how the words attributed to Jesus in the bible text are interpreted.

Bingo!

That is basically what many a debate on these forums is about.

Many words, in the Bible and in most languages, have different emphasis or usage, so this does trip up at times.

Therefore, care needs to be taken to properly research such before arriving at a definite explanation or interpretation.

[Elijah John]

The problem with the "Transfiguration" explanation, is that there are no angels, and no judgement, as is spoken of in verse 27.

Seems pretty clear Jesus was speaking of his "2nd coming".

Actually there was Angels in the transfiguration...

Jesus was in His fathers Glory, standing among the angles of Moses, and Elijah.
.

Moses and Elijah were no angels. . Seriously, they were not angels. People don't become angels when they die. Moses and Elijah were people.

And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.

[Checkpoint]

The problem with the "Transfiguration" explanation, is that there are no angels, and no judgement, as is spoken of in verse 27.

Seems pretty clear Jesus was speaking of his "2nd coming".

Actually there was Angels in the transfiguration...

Jesus was in His fathers Glory, standing among the angles of Moses, and Elijah.
.

Moses and Elijah were no angels. . Seriously, they were not angels. People don't become angels when they die. Moses and Elijah were people.

And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.

Two different events.

In verse 28 Jesus introduces what will happen next, and that is not about his return with angels in judgment.

[alexxcJRO]

The problem with the "Transfiguration" explanation, is that there are no angels, and no judgement, as is spoken of in verse 27.

Seems pretty clear Jesus was speaking of his "2nd coming".

Actually there was Angels in the transfiguration...

Jesus was in His fathers Glory, standing among the angles of Moses, and Elijah.
.

Moses and Elijah were no angels. . Seriously, they were not angels. People don't become angels when they die. Moses and Elijah were people.

And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.

Two different events.

In verse 28 Jesus introduces what will happen next, and that is not about his return with angels in judgment.

Off course Jesus changed the topic mid-phrase.

This way one can make a case for "Jesus was probably suffering from a psychotic disorder."

Symptom1: Disorganized speech or thinking(rapidly switching topics, called derailment or loose association; switching to topics that are unrelated, called tangental thinking : cheek.

Symptom2: Grandiose delusions (delusions that a person has a special power or importance; grossly exaggerated beliefs of self-worth, power[7], knowledge, identity, exceptional relationship to a divinity or famous person): cheek.

Symptom3: Jesus had visual, auditory hallucinations (ex: He saw and heard the voice of Satan) : cheek.

“Psychosis is an abnormal condition of the mind that results in difficulties telling what is real and what is not. Symptoms may include false beliefs and seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear.[4] Other symptoms may include incoherent speech and behavior that is inappropriate for the situation�
...
Psychosis may involve delusional beliefs…..The most common type of delusion are persecutory delusions, where a person believes that an individual, organization or group is attempting to harm them. Other delusions include delusions of reference (beliefs that a particular stimulus has a special meaning that is directed at the holder of belief), grandiose delusions (delusions that a person has a special power or importance), thought broadcasting (the belief that ones thoughts are audible) and thought insertion (the belief that ones thoughts are not their own).
....
Disorganization is split into disorganized speech or thinking, and grossly disorganized motor behavior. Disorganized speech, also called formal thought disorder, is disorganization of thinking that is inferred from speech. Characteristics of disorganized speech include rapidly switching topics, called derailment or loose association; switching to topics that are unrelated, called tangental thinking; incomprehensible speech, called word salad or incoherence. Disorganized motor behavior includes repetitive, odd, or sometimes purposeless movement�
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions

[Elijah John]

The problem with the "Transfiguration" explanation, is that there are no angels, and no judgement, as is spoken of in verse 27.

Seems pretty clear Jesus was speaking of his "2nd coming".

Actually there was Angels in the transfiguration...

Jesus was in His fathers Glory, standing among the angles of Moses, and Elijah.
.

Moses and Elijah were no angels. . Seriously, they were not angels. People don't become angels when they die. Moses and Elijah were people.

And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.

Two different events.

In verse 28 Jesus introduces what will happen next, and that is not about his return with angels in judgment.

Off course Jesus changed the topic mid-phrase.

This way one can make a case for "Jesus was probably suffering from a psychotic disorder."

Symptom1: Disorganized speech or thinking(rapidly switching topics, called derailment or loose association; switching to topics that are unrelated, called tangental thinking : cheek.

Symptom2: Grandiose delusions (delusions that a person has a special power or importance; grossly exaggerated beliefs of self-worth, power[7], knowledge, identity, exceptional relationship to a divinity or famous person): cheek.

Symptom3: Jesus had visual, auditory hallucinations (ex: He saw and heard the voice of Satan) : cheek.

“Psychosis is an abnormal condition of the mind that results in difficulties telling what is real and what is not. Symptoms may include false beliefs and seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear.[4] Other symptoms may include incoherent speech and behavior that is inappropriate for the situation�
...
Psychosis may involve delusional beliefs…..The most common type of delusion are persecutory delusions, where a person believes that an individual, organization or group is attempting to harm them. Other delusions include delusions of reference (beliefs that a particular stimulus has a special meaning that is directed at the holder of belief), grandiose delusions (delusions that a person has a special power or importance), thought broadcasting (the belief that ones thoughts are audible) and thought insertion (the belief that ones thoughts are not their own).
....
Disorganization is split into disorganized speech or thinking, and grossly disorganized motor behavior. Disorganized speech, also called formal thought disorder, is disorganization of thinking that is inferred from speech. Characteristics of disorganized speech include rapidly switching topics, called derailment or loose association; switching to topics that are unrelated, called tangental thinking; incomprehensible speech, called word salad or incoherence. Disorganized motor behavior includes repetitive, odd, or sometimes purposeless movement�
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions

Even if Jesus veered into another topic mid paragraph, that would not necessarily be a symptom of psychosis. I think that overstates it a bit.

Could be a simple matter of Attention Deficit Disorder. Lack of focus.

But I do not think Jesus wandered off-topic. Verses 27 and 28 are grouped in the same paragraph. Same paragraph, same topic. Elemenatry composition.

Most likely explanation is that Jesus, or the Gospel Evangelist was simply wrong.

[alexxcJRO]

The problem with the "Transfiguration" explanation, is that there are no angels, and no judgement, as is spoken of in verse 27.

Seems pretty clear Jesus was speaking of his "2nd coming".

Actually there was Angels in the transfiguration...

Jesus was in His fathers Glory, standing among the angles of Moses, and Elijah.
.

Moses and Elijah were no angels. . Seriously, they were not angels. People don't become angels when they die. Moses and Elijah were people.

And where is the judgment spoken of in verse 27? There was no judgment in the Tranfiguration.

Two different events.

In verse 28 Jesus introduces what will happen next, and that is not about his return with angels in judgment.

Off course Jesus changed the topic mid-phrase.

This way one can make a case for "Jesus was probably suffering from a psychotic disorder."

Symptom1: Disorganized speech or thinking(rapidly switching topics, called derailment or loose association; switching to topics that are unrelated, called tangental thinking : cheek.

Symptom2: Grandiose delusions (delusions that a person has a special power or importance; grossly exaggerated beliefs of self-worth, power[7], knowledge, identity, exceptional relationship to a divinity or famous person): cheek.

Symptom3: Jesus had visual, auditory hallucinations (ex: He saw and heard the voice of Satan) : cheek.

“Psychosis is an abnormal condition of the mind that results in difficulties telling what is real and what is not. Symptoms may include false beliefs and seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear.[4] Other symptoms may include incoherent speech and behavior that is inappropriate for the situation�
...
Psychosis may involve delusional beliefs…..The most common type of delusion are persecutory delusions, where a person believes that an individual, organization or group is attempting to harm them. Other delusions include delusions of reference (beliefs that a particular stimulus has a special meaning that is directed at the holder of belief), grandiose delusions (delusions that a person has a special power or importance), thought broadcasting (the belief that ones thoughts are audible) and thought insertion (the belief that ones thoughts are not their own).
....
Disorganization is split into disorganized speech or thinking, and grossly disorganized motor behavior. Disorganized speech, also called formal thought disorder, is disorganization of thinking that is inferred from speech. Characteristics of disorganized speech include rapidly switching topics, called derailment or loose association; switching to topics that are unrelated, called tangental thinking; incomprehensible speech, called word salad or incoherence. Disorganized motor behavior includes repetitive, odd, or sometimes purposeless movement�
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions

Even if Jesus veered into another topic mid paragraph, that would not necessarily be a symptom of psychosis. I think that overstates it a bit.

Could be a simple matter of Attention Deficit Disorder. Lack of focus.

But I do not think Jesus wandered off-topic. Verses 27 and 28 are grouped in the same paragraph. Same paragraph, same topic. Elemenatry composition.

Most likely explanation is that Jesus, or the Gospel Evangelist was simply wrong.

Off course the most likely explanation is that Jesus talked of one singular topic: His second coming or the writer believed Jesus talked of one singular topic: His second coming.
I just went along with his logic.

[rikuoamero]

Acts 1:9-11 – 9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight....“

We know Jesus disciples saw him leave the ground but did the disciples see Jesus go into heaven? If not what can we deduce about his "return" (parousia)

Acts 1:9 “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.“

What way or manner did they see him go into heaven literally or with their eyes of faith?

Acts 1:9-11 – 9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight....“

RELATED POSTS

The Ascension: Which direction is heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 907#818907

If you're suggesting that no-one saw Jesus ascend to heaven, this then becomes a claim without any type of evidence to support, not even what Christians would typically call an "eyewitness".

What is an "eye of faith"?