Blaine.
Angel.
Cooperfield.
Magicians. They do 'tricks' that stun and amaze many people.
God/jesus did the same type of things.
So are they nothing more than magicians?
Let's compare:
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = human
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = doing actions that surprise and impress certain (though not all) viewers
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield/jesus = men
Let's contrast:
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield = alive jesus = dead
Blaine/Angel/Cooperfield = verifiable in the real world jesus = unverifiable
It sure seems god can be called nothing more than a magician. Is that true, or is it something else?
How do we know this?
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Magic and god
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Clownboat
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Post #111
sizzle-d wrote: [Replying to post 88 by Misita]
It is useless debating you. According to you, He was an illusionists and i've asked you to do His greatest trick and you're mumbling irrelevant reasons as to why. Do it or don't talk about it.
Jesus can come back from the dead. If you can't, this proves that he is a miracle worker.
I can fly. If you can't fly, this proves that I am a miracle worker.
Sizzle-d, do you believe that I can fly? What if I lived in Nigeria, would it then be more likely?
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
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Clownboat
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Post #112
One of David Copperfield's greatest examples of magic was flying. If you want to prove it's a trick, do his greatest trick.sizzle-d wrote:Misita didn't provide any proof that Jesus did tricks and yours is an opinion.connermt wrote: [Replying to post 103 by sizzle-d]
When one makes statements as fact, proof is required.
When one makes a statement as an opinion, no proof is required.
It's your choice on how to respond.
As noted previously, many of god's miracles have been duplicated by magicians/illusionists.
So it does appear god's 'miracles' are nothing more than tricks
If you want to prove it's tricks, do His greatest trick.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
Post #113
So you only accept the Bible to be true when you can try to imitate it.Clownboat wrote:People don't lay dead and decomposing for 3 days and then come back to life.sizzle-d wrote: [Replying to post 83 by Misita]
If you want to prove anything, kill yourself with a real knife, get buried and rise after 3 days.
People is a lot, Jesus Christ is one man.
Yes they do using a long process different from Jesus'.People do however give the allusion to be walking on water or to turn water into wine.
He clearly came here claiming Jesus was an illusionist and when he was asked to do it, he started calling Jesus Christ an illusion.Your request that he kills himself seems out of line due to this.
Evolution: A perfect sci-fi story backed up by a science circle of ignoring that which it can't explain.
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
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Clownboat
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Post #114
sizzle-d wrote:Clownboat wrote:People don't lay dead and decomposing for 3 days and then come back to life.sizzle-d wrote: [Replying to post 83 by Misita]
If you want to prove anything, kill yourself with a real knife, get buried and rise after 3 days.This does not come close to addressing the fact that decomposing corpses of 3 days don't come back to life and once again focuses on the poster and not the topic.So you only accept the Bible to be true when you can try to imitate it.Now you point out something that is obvious, and it still does not address the fact that decomposing corpses of 3 days don't come back to life.People is a lot, Jesus Christ is one man.
People do however give the allusion to be walking on water or to turn water into wine.
Please provide evidence for this claim. How is it that you know he did it any differently that Misita and others now do it?Yes they do using a long process different from Jesus'.
Your request that he kills himself seems out of line due to this.Your request is silly. Let me show you just one more time by turning your scenario back on to you:He clearly came here claiming Jesus was an illusionist and when he was asked to do it, he started calling Jesus Christ an illusion.
David Copperfield can fly, if you think it is just an illusion, do it yourself.
Your logic just doesn't work, and you seem to be the last one here to realize it.
I can fly to the moon. If you think it's just a trick, then do it yourself.
This is just not a good way to get to the truth of a claim.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
Post #115
No it's not. It doesn't agree with what you want that is why it's "silly" to you.Clownboat wrote:
Your request is silly.
I can try to imitate it with a flying suit but it won't be the real thing just like imitating turning water into wine is not the real thing.
David Copperfield can fly, if you think it is just an illusion, do it yourself.
You are the one trying to make it suit your arguement.Your logic just doesn't work, and you seem to be the last one here to realize it.
It's not a trick. It's really simple to do.I can fly to the moon. If you think it's just a trick, then do it yourself.
It is a good way.This is just not a good way to get to the truth of a claim.
Evolution: A perfect sci-fi story backed up by a science circle of ignoring that which it can't explain.
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
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Clownboat
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Post #116
Like taking candy from a baby...sizzle-d wrote:No it's not. It doesn't agree with what you want that is why it's "silly" to you.Clownboat wrote:
Your request is silly.I can try to imitate it with a flying suit but it won't be the real thing just like imitating turning water into wine is not the real thing.
David Copperfield can fly, if you think it is just an illusion, do it yourself.You are the one trying to make it suit your arguement.Your logic just doesn't work, and you seem to be the last one here to realize it.It's not a trick. It's really simple to do.I can fly to the moon. If you think it's just a trick, then do it yourself.It is a good way.This is just not a good way to get to the truth of a claim.
This is sizzle-d's scenario:sizzle-d wrote:I can try to imitate it with a flying suit but it won't be the real thing just like imitating turning water into wine is not the real thing.
If you want to prove Jesus Christ was an illusionist, do His greatest trick.
My response, using sizzle-d's logic:
I can try to imitate it with drugs, but it won't be the real thing just like imitating flying is not the real thing.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
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average_bear
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Re: Magic and god
Post #117[Replying to post 2 by sizzle-d]
I, too fail to see the difference between magic and miracle. Are you saying that if God does it, it's a miracle and if anyone else does the same thing, it's magic?
I, too fail to see the difference between magic and miracle. Are you saying that if God does it, it's a miracle and if anyone else does the same thing, it's magic?
Re: Magic and god
Post #118[Replying to post 117 by average_bear]
That's because things are being mixed up.
There is illusion, magic and miracle.
1) Illusion - long process to try imitate magic or a miracle and everything is set up
2) Magic - of the devil
3) Miracle - of God
That's because things are being mixed up.
There is illusion, magic and miracle.
1) Illusion - long process to try imitate magic or a miracle and everything is set up
2) Magic - of the devil
3) Miracle - of God
Evolution: A perfect sci-fi story backed up by a science circle of ignoring that which it can't explain.
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Re: Magic and god
Post #119Evolution: A perfect sci-fi story backed up by a science circle of ignoring that which it can't explain.
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Links for all: [What was that story about Atheist Scientists?][Arguement for God][Link]
Post #120
[Replying to post 108 by sizzle-d]
Seems that's a better trick than being a zombie...fooling millions and millions...
I don't have to. It looks like other have done that themselves.If you want to prove Jesus Christ was an illusionist...
Some would say his greatest trick is heading a scam cult that evolved into a religion....His greatest trick (i'm certain you'll die if you do rise on the 3rd day or as someone put it "after he rose, he was scattered to pieces by lightning").
Seems that's a better trick than being a zombie...fooling millions and millions...
