Noah's Ark

[East of Eden]

Anyone want to speculate how a large boat got on top of a 13,000' mountain?




Has Noah's Ark Been Found on Turkish Mountaintop?

FOXNews.com

The remains of Noah's Ark have been discovered 13,000 feet up a Turkish mountain -- according to a sensational claim by evangelical explorers.


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Noahs Ark Ministries International

An explorer examines wooden beams inside what some are nearly certain is the remains of Noah's Ark.

A group of Chinese and Turkish evangelical explorers say wooden remains they have discovered on Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey are the remains of Noah's Ark.

The group claims that carbon dating proves the relics are 4,800 years old, meaning they date to around the same time the ark was said to be afloat. Mt. Ararat has long been suspected as the final resting place of the craft by evangelicals and literalists hoping to validate biblical stories.

Yeung Wing-Cheung, from the Noah's Ark Ministries International research team that made the discovery, said: "It's not 100 percent that it is Noah's Ark, but we think it is 99.9 percent that this is it."

There have been several reported discoveries of the remains of Noah's Ark over the years, most notably a find by archaeologist Ron Wyatt in 1987. At the time, the Turkish government officially declared a national park around his find, a boat-shaped object stretched across the mountains of Ararat.

Nevertheless, the evangelical ministry remains convinced that the current find is in fact more likely to be the actual artifact, calling upon Dutch Ark researcher Gerrit Aalten to verify its legitimacy.

The significance of this find is that for the first time in history the discovery of Noahs Ark is well documented and revealed to the worldwide community, Aalten said at a press conference announcing the find. Citing the many details that match historical accounts of the Ark, he believes it to be a legitimate archaeological discovery.

Theres a tremendous amount of solid evidence that the structure found on Mount Ararat in Eastern Turkey is the legendary Ark of Noah, said Aalten.

Representatives of Noah's Ark Ministries said the structure contained several compartments, some with wooden beams, that they believe were used to house animals.The group of evangelical archaeologists ruled out an established human settlement on the grounds none have ever been found above 11,000 feet in the vicinity, Yeung said.

During the press conference, team member Panda Lee described visiting the site. In October 2008, I climbed the mountain with the Turkish team. At an elevation of more than 4,000 meters, I saw a structure built with plank-like timber. Each plank was about 8 inches wide. I could see tenons, proof of ancient construction predating the use of metal nails."

We walked about 100 meters to another site. I could see broken wood fragments embedded in a glacier, and some 20 meters long. I surveyed the landscape and found that the wooden structure was permanently covered by ice and volcanic rocks."

Local Turkish officials will ask the central government in Ankara to apply for UNESCO World Heritage status so the site can be protected while a major archaeological dig is conducted.

The biblical story says that God decided to flood the Earth after seeing how corrupt it was. He then told Noah to build an ark and fill it with two of every animal species.

After the flood waters receded, the Bible says, the ark came to rest on a mountain. Many believe that Mount Ararat, the highest point in the region, is where the ark and her inhabitants ran aground.

[JoeyKnothead]

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I was under the impression this was a debate forum. Should I just post a link as a reply?

Some debate, some preach, some duck questions. Perhaps the latter two think that impresses or fools readers?????

Or right after they got the link ready, their hands suddenly fell off and all they could do was hit the submit button with their nose.

[WinePusher]

East of Eden

You can only disprove miracles if you can disprove God, and you can't do that. Because you haven't seen any isn't proof that they never happened.

Actually, miracles or claims of miracles have not been shown to be more than imagination and myth. We have no need to "disprove" them as you have not shown any reason whatsoever to think they actually occurred.

Almost all religions claim miracles, are they too considered by you to be factual?

Grumpy

well, your bringing up the issue of the probablity of miracles, which would be more appropriate for another thread. But David Hume never denys the existence of miracles, he merely suugests that to "believe" in a miracle would be irrational as there are probably better explanation of the phenomenon. Again, he never denys the possiblitly that a miracle could occur.

[WinePusher]

John Woodmorappe, author of the definitive Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study, made several invalid assumptions that, when corrected, fill the ark past overflowing

• The "kinds" used in Woodmorappe's calculations were genera. Taking individual species, which is a much more reasonable definition of kind in the context of the ark, increases the load three- or fourfold.
• Woodmorappe did not account for the extra clean animals, considering their number negligible. However, he believed that the only clean animals would be thirteen domestic ruminants traditionally considered clean. But if the Bible is taken literally, all ruminants would be considered clean. Under Woodmorappe's assumption, the extra clean animals would increase the load by 1.5 percent, or 3 percent if you include seven pairs of the animals. Taking all ruminants increases the load by 14 or 28 percent.
• Woodmorappe included only juveniles of animals larger than about 10 kg. This assumption, however, is unbiblical and, for some animals, impractical. Taking adult animals would increase the total mass more than thirteenfold. Taking even some of these animals as adults or taking older juveniles could easily fill the ark beyond capacity.
• According to the creation model, dinosaurs and other animals now extinct would have been alive at the time of the flood and therefore would be aboard the ark. The only extinct animals that Woodmorappe included in his calculations were the ones that were known at the time. Since then, many other dinosaur genera have been discovered, and no doubt there are many more as yet undiscovered.
• Woodmorappe excluded land invertebrates from his calculations, despite the fact that they must have been aboard the ark. These animals are small enough that they alone would not have increased the load significantly, but they are numerous enough and have many special requirements, so the infrastructure needed to house and care for them would have been significant.
• Woodmorappe made no allowance for food spoilage or water wasted from spilling, although the conditions he described aboard the ark guarantee that both of these problems would have been severe.

From Claim CH512: Talk Origins

See also:
Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study
by Glenn Morton
Copyright 1996-2003
[Posted: November 22, 1996]
A rebuttal written by John Woodmorappe
Problems fitting the animals in the Ark, Problems with a Global Flood, Second Edition by Mark Isaak
The Bible (Gen. 7:2) speaks of "the male and his mate," indicating that the animals were at sexual maturity.

Why would we believe that the ark would still be around? If the flood story was true and the ark was actually built, couldn't it be possible that it has eroded and decayed over the thousands of years it was on Mt Ararat?

[McCulloch]

Why would we believe that the ark would still be around? If the flood story was true and the ark was actually built, couldn't it be possible that it has eroded and decayed over the thousands of years it was on Mt Ararat?

If you continue to insist on being reasonable and rational, you are going to take all the fun away from them.

[Zzyzx]

.

To believe the myth of Noah's Ark, one would have to believe that the O T is true history.

I do.

I do not. Do you tell other people that the tales are true?

In it we see God turning staffs into snakes and miracles aplenty in Egypt, including where He hardens Pharaoh's heart so that He can murder the first born of Egypt. Not a nice thing to do at all.

One would also have to believe that God's perfect creations did not act as programmed and as always, ignored His laws and commandments.

We have free will.

That has not been established as factual " only as conjecture and opinion. This is a debate forum in which challenged statements are to be supported with evidence. I challenge. You are honorable, arent you?

Do you actually believe in talking animals and water walking and all the other bible miracles that I call fantasy?

You can only disprove miracles if you can disprove God, and you can't do that.

Correction: Donkeys and snakes do not talk, people do not walk on water, water does not turn into fine wine, dead bodies do not come back to life " except in fairytales and bible stories.

Readers know that. What do you have to offer them to show that such incredible (defined as: surpassing belief: too extraordinary and improbable to admit of belief) things ACTUALLY, literally happened in the real world?

Because you haven't seen any isn't proof that they never happened.

Those who make the claim that such things do happen have the burden of proof in honorable debate. You ARE honorable arent you? Are you?

I know that many think that the genocide of Noah's day was just good old justice against the wicked folk but that does not explain why God would murder innocent children and babies.

We did the same when we nuked Japan.

Does mass killing by the US Army JUSTIFY mass killing on a much larger scale by god? You are kidding, arent you?

Did god set the example for genocide (according to tales told)? Perhaps warlike people worship warlike gods.

Do you approve of dropping atomic bombs on civilian areas (cities)?

Do you approve of gods killing children?

It also does not explain how animals can be evil and also deserve destruction.

Sin has consequences for the innocent also, unfortunately.

Sin is a religious concept that is not binding upon anyone who does not accept the tales in religious promotional literature.

There is no evidence that sin is punished in an afterlife. Can you show readers than any of those things are REAL in the real world they inhabit?

Christians also speak of the free will that God gives us.
Did He become the epitome of Indian Givers in that day?

Does that mean that He lies to man when saying, I give you free will instead of saying I will give you this gift till whenever I decide to claw it back?

If you follow that God, do you claw back the gifts you give if they are not used exactly the way you think they should be used?

When did He take away our free will?

There is no indication, other than ancient tales by storytellers and religious promoters that any god GAVE any humans free will. That is purely a religious construct that has not been shown to be anything more than imagination.

Again, you SAY that god gave humans free will but can offer no reason (other than bible tales) to show that you speak truth.

[Greatest I Am]

.

To believe the myth of Noah's Ark, one would have to believe that the O T is true history.

I do.

In it we see God turning staffs into snakes and miracles aplenty in Egypt, including where He hardens Pharaoh's heart so that He can murder the first born of Egypt. Not a nice thing to do at all.

One would also have to believe that God's perfect creations did not act as programmed and as always, ignored His laws and commandments.

We have free will.

Do you actually believe in talking animals and water walking and all the other bible miracles that I call fantasy?

You can only disprove miracles if you can disprove God, and you can't do that. Because you haven't seen any isn't proof that they never happened.

I know that many think that the genocide of Noah's day was just good old justice against the wicked folk but that does not explain why God would murder innocent children and babies.

We did the same when we nuked Japan.

It also does not explain how animals can be evil and also deserve destruction.

Sin has consequences for the innocent also, unfortunately.

Christians also speak of the free will that God gives us.
Did He become the epitome of Indian Givers in that day?

Does that mean that He lies to man when saying, I give you free will instead of saying I will give you this gift till whenever I decide to claw it back?

If you follow that God, do you claw back the gifts you give if they are not used exactly the way you think they should be used?

Regards
DL

When did He take away our free will?

Did he not ignore those who, with their free will, wanted to live.
Is murdering someone not effecting their free will? Sure is.
If you want a Biblical lose of free will, I gave one above where God hardened Pharaoh's heart. A definite breach of free will.

You compare the flood to us bambing others and murdering children.

God has the power to heal instead of killing. He did not do so. Why?

Why take the title of genocidal maniac instead of great healer?

As to disproving miracles, don't you think it is up to those who claim them to prove them?

Why would it fall to others to prove that no miracle happened?

Regards
DL

[tataraperz]

.

To believe the myth of Noah's Ark, one would have to believe that the O T is true history.

I do.

In it we see God turning staffs into snakes and miracles aplenty in Egypt, including where He hardens Pharaoh's heart so that He can murder the first born of Egypt. Not a nice thing to do at all.

One would also have to believe that God's perfect creations did not act as programmed and as always, ignored His laws and commandments.

We have free will.

Do you actually believe in talking animals and water walking and all the other bible miracles that I call fantasy?

You can only disprove miracles if you can disprove God, and you can't do that. Because you haven't seen any isn't proof that they never happened.

I know that many think that the genocide of Noah's day was just good old justice against the wicked folk but that does not explain why God would murder innocent children and babies.

We did the same when we nuked Japan.

It also does not explain how animals can be evil and also deserve destruction.

Sin has consequences for the innocent also, unfortunately.

Christians also speak of the free will that God gives us.
Did He become the epitome of Indian Givers in that day?

Does that mean that He lies to man when saying, I give you free will instead of saying I will give you this gift till whenever I decide to claw it back?

If you follow that God, do you claw back the gifts you give if they are not used exactly the way you think they should be used?

Regards
DL

When did He take away our free will?

So based on what you say US(people) killing other people with nukes makes it right for god to kill people?

Damn, and i thought he just gave us free will cause he was so kind and lovely, not cause he wanted to use our acts as an excuse to his.

I cant belive people still blindfully believing anything they are said and they read in the bible, taking everything as literal. I mean, if you at least showed some kind of logical process of why you think those stories should be taken as something literal, even if i didnt agree at all, i would respect your opinion.

[Angel]

In response to the OP, I'm optimistic about the purported finding being Noah's ark but of course I would not be surprised if it isn't. I don't know of many hoaxes when it comes to Noah's ark sightings but rather the issue has been there hasn't been much done beyond just the sightings, like lots of scholars and explorers scaling the mountain to locate the Ark based on the general vicinity of the sightings. Maybe there's political tensions in the area besides the potentially hard-to-reach mountain area.


Here's another link I found from National Geographic:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... n-culture/

In the article there's also a YouTube video of the team who made the latest claim to have found the ark. The video shows them walking around at the site of the ark.

[Flail]

How does the purported discovery of an old boat prove Jesus?

[Angel]

How does the purported discovery of an old boat prove Jesus?

I don't know if this is a response to my post since it came right after mine, but isn't your question a red-herring? I haven't see anyone claim that Noah's ark would prove that Jesus exists. It would at least provide some archaeological evidence for some parts of what the Bible mentions about Noah's ark.