Lets cut to the chase: Why should I be a Christian?

[notachance]

If you're a theist and are active on a forum called "Debating Christianity & Religion", then you probably believe that the value of Christianity is something that can be spoken for.

So here is the situation: I don't want you to tell me why you believe. I understand that for many of you, it has to do with a feeling in your heart, or inexpressible faith, or something along those lines, which would be hard to verbalize and to formulate into a cogent case for Christianity. As respectable a that is, and as good a reason it may be for you to believe, it doesn't help me.

I want you to tell me why I should believe.

Given the fact that I don't share with you that emotional connection with Christianity, given that I don't feel the presence of Jesus in my heart like you do, given that I guide my decision making and my opinion forming by rationality and common sense, what can you tell me along those lines to persuade me that Christianity is the way to go?

Why should I be a Christian? What can you say to persuade me that what you believe is true?

[1213]

Why should I be a Christian? What can you say to persuade me that what you believe is true?

Probably there is no reasons that could be irresistible and thats why I only say why I believe what Jesus said.
1. In my opinion, his words are good and righteous
2. In my opinion, he is right about human, what is good/bad, how things go after he has gone. And therefore I believe he tells also truth about God
3. If I believe in Jesus and follow him, I lose nothing (at least nothing that is really valuable)

[McCulloch]

1. In my opinion, his words are good and righteous

Meh. He had his moments, but so have many other thinkers.

2. In my opinion, he is right about human, what is good/bad, how things go after he has gone. And therefore I believe he tells also truth about God

You mean the part about coming back before some of the people standing before him would die? You mean the bit about being three nights in the tomb?

3. If I believe in Jesus and follow him, I lose nothing (at least nothing that is really valuable)

Jesus promised persecution, death and poverty. True, it costs nothing to say that you follow Jesus. But it costs a lot to actually try to implement his teachings in your life. Are you a true Christian who believes Jesus or are you a nominal Christian who believes in Jesus?

[Flail]

Why should I be a Christian? What can you say to persuade me that what you believe is true?

Probably there is no reasons that could be irresistible and thats why I only say why I believe what Jesus said.
1. In my opinion, his words are good and righteous
2. In my opinion, he is right about human, what is good/bad, how things go after he has gone. And therefore I believe he tells also truth about God
3. If I believe in Jesus and follow him, I lose nothing (at least nothing that is really valuable)

May we assume then, that you have given up all worldly possessions to help the needy and that you spend your time attempting to bring salvation to your non-believing friends, family and neighbors?

[1213]

Meh. He had his moments, but so have many other thinkers.

I am interested to hear who else have had as good moments.
Can you name few?

You mean the part about coming back before some of the people standing before him would die? You mean the bit about being three nights in the tomb?

That happenned according to the Bibles text. But obviously its one part that is depending on what you believe.

Jesus promised persecution, death and poverty. True, it costs nothing to say that you follow Jesus. But it costs a lot to actually try to implement his teachings in your life. Are you a true Christian who believes Jesus or are you a nominal Christian who believes in Jesus?

I am not going to testify for myself. You have to decide yourself, if it's possible.

But you are right it may cost many things, but in my opinion, nothing valuable, or better to say, so valuable that it would be too bad. I don't fear them who can kill body, but couldn't do anything more. And poverty depends on what you think is valuable.

[notachance]

Why should I be a Christian? What can you say to persuade me that what you believe is true?

Probably there is no reasons that could be irresistible and thats why I only say why I believe what Jesus said.
1. In my opinion, his words are good and righteous

"Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)
"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6). This one inspired the inquisition, by the way.
"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42)
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
"I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:35-36)

It seems to me that Jesus is an evil and violent maniac. He advocates violence, brutality, slaying, burning people alive, hunting people down and casting them in furnaces (kinda what the Nazis did to the Jews), slavery, the destruction of conservative family values, and overall lunacy

2. In my opinion, he is right about human, what is good/bad, how things go after he has gone. And therefore I believe he tells also truth about God

Jesus told his disciples that they would not die before his second coming: "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" (Matthew 16:28). "Behold, I come quickly." (Revelation 3:11) It's been 2,000 years, and believers are still waiting for his "quick" return.

He is right about how things go after he is gone? He clearly thought the world would end before his generation was dead. He was right? He was absolutely wrong and clueless!

3. If I believe in Jesus and follow him, I lose nothing (at least nothing that is really valuable)

Pascal's wager. You lose nothing only if there are two options, Christianity is real or Christianity is not real. But what if Islam is real? What if by believing in Jesus instead of believing in Mohammed, you were condemning yourself to Muslim Hell? what if by not believing in Odin you were destroying your changes of getting into Valhalla?

[1213]

Jesus told his disciples that they would not die before his second coming: "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" (Matthew 16:28).

The story continues like this:
After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. (Matthew 17:1-2)

To me that shows that words of Jesus come true after six days and some of his disciples saw him coming in his kingdom.

Pascal's wager. You lose nothing only if there are two options, Christianity is real or Christianity is not real. But what if Islam is real? What if by believing in Jesus instead of believing in Mohammed, you were condemning yourself to Muslim Hell? what if by not believing in Odin you were destroying your changes of getting into Valhalla?

Thats true if you think others as an option. I dont see there any chance that others could be right.

[McCulloch]

Meh. He had his moments, but so have many other thinkers.

I am interested to hear who else have had as good moments.
Can you name few?

Plato, John Locke, Rene Descartes, Thomas Hobbes, John Stuart Mill, Susan B. Anthony, Susan Brownmiller, Simone de Beauvoir, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Mary Wollstonecraft, Betty Friedan, Germaine Greer, Bertrand Russell, Alfred North Whitehead, Daniel Dennett, John Rawls, Jeremy Bentham, John Dewey ...

You mean the part about coming back before some of the people standing before him would die? You mean the bit about being three nights in the tomb?

That happened according to the Bibles text. But obviously its one part that is depending on what you believe.

Well, Jesus predicted that he would be three days and three nights in the tomb, but the biblical narrative only has two nights (Friday night and Saturday night).

Are you a true Christian who believes Jesus or are you a nominal Christian who believes in Jesus?

But you are right it may cost many things, but in my opinion, nothing valuable, or better to say, so valuable that it would be too bad. I don't fear them who can kill body, but couldn't do anything more. And poverty depends on what you think is valuable.

Do you have either insurance or savings? More than two sets of clothing?

[Jester]

Moderator Comment

I would like to introduce you to your new life as a Christian! Feast your eyes on our many perks:

- You get to be part of a "loving" and "caring" community.
- Your actions are justified by a higher power.
- You will never feel alone.
- You get your very own scapegoat (Satan)
- You don't have to learn biology or even science.
- You get to always be right in moral or philosophical discussions.
- You don't need to bother with complexities of logic.
- You get other people to do your thinking for you.
- You get access to business and social networking.
- You get to feel naughty while fornicating.
- You can get away with hate crime in many states.
- You get to feel superior and special.
- You can get elected president of the United States.

You get all this and more if you only say the magic words, "Praise Jesus!"
Make sure to accentuate the A in "praise" and elongate the E in "Jesus". Like so: PrAise Jeeeesus!

Welcome to your new life!

Legal. The Christian faith is in no way responsible for any detrimental effects caused by the indoctrination into our organization. God is not responsible for any illness, misfortune, accident or act of nature in your life. This contract is binding. Upon withdraw you will be required to pay a fee of eternal suffering upon termination of bodily functions.

Please use less sarcasm and more substantial comments next time.

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[Autodidact]

Okay. Try the complex "explanation" (or excuse as the case may be). Perhaps some here are capable of following a complex discussion -- if it makes sense.

Such a discussion with you about that topic simply isn't possible. There are some assumptions in your worldview that simply wouldn't allow you to perceive the meaning of individual thoughts as they are arranged in my system. There's also my continual worry that to anything I say you will just pull a "Okay, now how can you verify that" with the smug presumption that of course I can't, because you're making fundamental category mistakes which you won't attend to because you already think you've won the argument.

I don't mean this as an aside to obscure the issue, but I only wish to note why I don't think it'd be as worthwhile to attempt this discussion yet before attending to that lingering scientism of yours. If you don't mind, I would like to make a thread to discuss the problems I see with your scientistic/verificationistic standard.

Coming into the discussion as an outsider, this sounds like nothing but excuses.

You can't explain your worldview, and assume that it's our fault? I can explain mine. That doesn't mean you'll agree with it, but if you can't explain it, I think you have some re-thinking to do.

[1213]

Well, Jesus predicted that he would be three days and three nights in the tomb, but the biblical narrative only has two nights (Friday night and Saturday night).

Where in Bible there have been said, that he was only two nights Friday and Saturday?

Therefore the Jews, because it was the Preparation Day, so that the bodies wouldn't remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a special one), asked of Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
(John. 19:31)

Jesus was in tomb Wednesday night, Thursday (night and day), Friday (night and day), Saturday (day only). He was in tomb 3 days and nights, was resurrected when Saturday day ended, which was noticed next morning that was weeks first day (Sunday), as Bible tells.

Special Sabbath was Thursday, and it was Pesah. Wednesday was its preparation day.

What I refer here is from a Finnish site http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/Valmistuspaiva
and is apparently there by Moshe Ben Meir. I dont know does he have any English site where this could be told more specifically.

Do you have either insurance or savings? More than two sets of clothing?

Unfortunately, if you want keep car legally in Finland, you have to have insurance. so I have insurance.

Some may say that I have also savings.

I have more than one set of clothing.

And now you maybe would say that Jesus forbids it in:

"Take nothing for your journey-neither staffs, nor wallet, nor bread, nor money; neither have two coats apiece. (Luke 9:3)

But in this, you should notice the situation. It was said when he sended disciples to preach the Kingdom of God.

And later Jesus says:
"When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing."
Then he said to them, "But now, whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.
(Luke 22:35-36)

I have sword actually two, if words that I say are understood as sword. Real sword is not because words of Jesus.

In my opinion, those sayings are for those specific situations and for those who were with him then.

You may also refer to this:
"Don't lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal; (Matthew 6:19)

And that I try to follow, and I dont have treasures.

Or, have I forgot some other part?