Lets cut to the chase: Why should I be a Christian?

[notachance]

If you're a theist and are active on a forum called "Debating Christianity & Religion", then you probably believe that the value of Christianity is something that can be spoken for.

So here is the situation: I don't want you to tell me why you believe. I understand that for many of you, it has to do with a feeling in your heart, or inexpressible faith, or something along those lines, which would be hard to verbalize and to formulate into a cogent case for Christianity. As respectable a that is, and as good a reason it may be for you to believe, it doesn't help me.

I want you to tell me why I should believe.

Given the fact that I don't share with you that emotional connection with Christianity, given that I don't feel the presence of Jesus in my heart like you do, given that I guide my decision making and my opinion forming by rationality and common sense, what can you tell me along those lines to persuade me that Christianity is the way to go?

Why should I be a Christian? What can you say to persuade me that what you believe is true?

[jayden.]

Dear Fellow readers

I am going to skip right to the question ask or attempt to answer the question. In my opinion (which doesn't necessarily mean I'm right), the people who choose to become christian is the interest behind that religion. I for one find most interest in the teachings of prince Sadaka, who is most known as the first Buddah (meaning he has no attachments in this world of desire) and the philosophy of The Wheel of Karma or modern term Cause and effect. How ever I also find interest in the Christian religion and a few others.

[Flail]

Dear Fellow readers

I am going to skip right to the question ask or attempt to answer the question. In my opinion (which doesn't necessarily mean I'm right), the people who choose to become christian is the interest behind that religion. I for one find most interest in the teachings of prince Sadaka, who is most known as the first Buddah (meaning he has no attachments in this world of desire) and the philosophy of The Wheel of Karma or modern term Cause and effect. How ever I also find interest in the Christian religion and a few others.

Likewise.

I am constantly considering religions; I have gained insight from most of my efforts in doing so, whether I agree philosophically or not.

What I find most disheartening however, is the insistence by fundamentalist theists, Christians and Muslims in particular, to couch their subjective considerations or the mimicked philosophical ideas of others, as truth; and to conjure a divisive supernatural being and to then imbue this imaginary creature with an attitude, and with legislative authority over the rest of us; an authority tellingly consistent with the dogma of their particular brand of odd holy men who know absolutely nothing aboiut what they preach. Such dogma indoctrination tends to close down the best side of us as humans and inhibits our effort of considering, pondering, wondering, questioning and leads us not to improvement and collective, evolutionary insight, but instead to a kind of stifling, insistent intolerance that leads us to distrust one another all the more; more like angry dogs than intelligent beings.

Instead of insisting on answers and absolute truths, it seems to me we should be engaged in asking more questions and considering everything that looks like the answer as just another idea to contemplate. To my mind, believing anything propounded by religion as absolute truth is a most vile sort of submissiveness which seems to bring out the worst in all of us.

[notachance]

The differences I have found are the Song of Miriam, the misspelling of some words, some number variations and names. The book of Samuel was misspellings, number variations and some names.

Well, it's ok that those are the only differences you were able to find. You're not that good at comparing ancient texts. Thankfully there are people who are better at it than you who were able to find many more.

But hey, it could be that every expert in the world is wrong, and that you are right, so I strongly recommend that you take up your case with the authors of the Oxford Companion to Archeology.

I believe that George Lucas changed Star Wars more then this. They affect no doctrine or teaching of the church.

You are entitled to your religious beliefs. But if you have any factual claim to back up your religious belief, please take it up with the Oxford Archeological Society.

Now a portion of Daniel two that mentioned the dream was in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The passage speaks of the fall of the Roman Empire. That happened after 300 AD. So the addition had to be after the Bible that you admit is a copy that exist today.

Please provide a link to a website where I can read the words "Roman Empire" in the DSS.

Do you realize you're not making any sense, and just plowing through anyway, or do you genuinely not understand how absurd your statements are?

[Composer]

Or, have I forgot some other part?

You have forgotten e.g. -

For we brought nothing into [this] world, [and it is] certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. (1 Tim. 6:7-8) KJV Story book

BDB/Thayers # 4629
4629 skepasma {skep'-as-mah}
from a derivative of skepas (a covering; perhaps akin to the base
of 4649 through the idea of noticeableness);; n n
AV - raiment 1; 1
1) a covering, spec. clothing

So send me or post here a signed and independently witnessed Statuatory Declaration stating you have and own absolutely nothing else but say a couple of days food and some clothing and NOTHING else whatsoever (no car, no computer(s), no house, no shares, no superannuation, no investment funds, no bank accounts, no real estate property etc. etc) and that you haven't just transferred it over into your wife's name, and your confirmation you have done all those things and are honestly ' therewith content? ', and then we'll talk more concerning your ' claim ' you are indeed a genuine bible jesus' believer?

BTW: Do you still sin?

[1213]

For we brought nothing into [this] world, [and it is] certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. (1 Tim. 6:7-8) KJV Story book

So send me or post here a signed and independently witnessed Statuatory Declaration stating you have and own absolutely nothing else but say a couple of days food and some clothing and NOTHING else whatsoever (no car, no computer(s), no house, no shares, no superannuation, no investment funds, no bank accounts, no real estate property etc. etc) and that you haven't just transferred it over into your wife's name, and your confirmation you have done all those things and are honestly ' therewith content? ', and then we'll talk more concerning your ' claim ' you are indeed a genuine bible jesus' believer?

And what makes you the judge?

Interesting if you think 1 Tim. 6:7-8 gives you the right to ask my property to you. I dont see it same way as you

I think also that would not tell if I am a genuine bible Jesus' believer.

BTW: Do you still sin?

If I sin, it is not intentional. And I trust that God is merciful and this next is true also.

If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has something to judge him: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
John 12:47-48

I hope I have not done anything against that, because it would be the sin.

[catalyst]

For we brought nothing into [this] world, [and it is] certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. (1 Tim. 6:7-8) KJV Story book

So send me or post here a signed and independently witnessed Statuatory Declaration stating you have and own absolutely nothing else but say a couple of days food and some clothing and NOTHING else whatsoever (no car, no computer(s), no house, no shares, no superannuation, no investment funds, no bank accounts, no real estate property etc. etc) and that you haven't just transferred it over into your wife's name, and your confirmation you have done all those things and are honestly ' therewith content? ', and then we'll talk more concerning your ' claim ' you are indeed a genuine bible jesus' believer?

And what makes you the judge?

Interesting if you think 1 Tim. 6:7-8 gives you the right to ask my property to you. I dont see it same way as you

I think also that would not tell if I am a genuine bible Jesus' believer.

Doesn't the bible however state that to truly follow jesus, you must at the very least sell your possessions and give to the poor? For all we know, Composer may well be fiscally challenged. Who are YOU to judge THAT?

Matthew 19:21 states you should do the above. Perhaps the verse from 1 Tim., is just reiterating the point?

Further, same paraphrased point made in Luke 14:33 - got to give up EVERYTHING to be jesus's disciple.

I also don't think the question is that you actually believe it all, but more to do with your follow through ON what you believe. From the comments I have seen you have made, it sort of shows that you like to TALK it, but have no desire to actually WALK it.

Just an observation.

I suppose there is nothing quite like a person who wants to give "know all" direction, when they themselves have never thoroughly travelled the path they are giving others direction ON.

Catalyst.

[1213]

It seems to me that your point is You are not perfect, why should anyone else be. I admit that Im not perfect and probably not good example of how all should live. But then, Im not trying to get people to follow me. You should follow Jesus, not me, because Jesus is good example. If your intention is to be disciple of Jesus and you understand differently what Jesus says, do as you understand what Jesus said. Im not the one you should follow, Jesus is.

Doesn't the bible however state that to truly follow jesus, you must at the very least sell your possessions and give to the poor? For all we know, Composer may well be fiscally challenged. Who are YOU to judge THAT?

Matthew 19:21 states you should do the above. Perhaps the verse from 1 Tim., is just reiterating the point?

Jesus said to him (Rich young man), If you want to be perfect, go and sell what you own and give the money to the destitute, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come back and follow me.
Mat. 19:21

I dont think I am that Rich young man. And also that may not work today, because you cant literally obey that, you cant go to Jesus and then follow him. If you want to follow Jesus, it has to be done differently than in that case. If goal is to speak against owning, better part is Mat. 6:19,24. They show that God should be the highest, not property.

And if I would be rich and sell all my property, I would give it to the poor. I doubt that Composer is not poor.

Further, same paraphrased point made in Luke 14:33 - got to give up EVERYTHING to be Jesus's disciple.

So therefore whoever of you who doesn't renounce all that he has, he can't be my disciple.
Luke 14:33
(Not only property but also everything else)

I think all should read that whole chapter (Luke 14). That chapter teaches that if one wants to be disciple of Jesus, then Jesus should be more important than family or property. And you should leave all other things if you want to follow Jesus. If you are focused on other things than Jesus, you cant really do well in being disciple of Jesus, because your mind is focused on other things. This means also, if you are poor and think all the time all the riches that you want, you are not much different than rich who see his riches more important than Jesus.

Can it be fit to this day? I think it cant directly, because Jesus is not on earth. We cant leave all behind and go to Jesus. So we have to apply it to current situation.

If we apply that to modern time, it would mean for example: if you could chose to speak about Jesus or make money, then you should chose the first option, if you are disciple of Jesus. That what serves Jesus the best way should come first, if purpose is to be disciple of Jesus. If you do so, then you have given up all other things, even though you may have property at the same time.

I think this is all about what is said in these:

"Don't lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consume, and where thieves don't break through and steal; "The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light.
Mat. 6:19
"No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You can't serve both God and Mammon.
Mat. 6:24

If I own computer because of computer, then it may be not so good, but if I own computer to serve Jesus, then I think its not bad. It is all about what you are serving God or mammon, or something else. If someone wants to be disciple of Jesus, Jesus should be more important than mammon or anything else on earth.

What Peter says in next part shows to me that disciples were not forced to sell all and give up everything.

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira, his wife, sold a possession, and kept back part of the price, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While you kept it, didn't it remain your own? After it was sold, wasn't it in your power? How is it that you have conceived this thing in your heart? You haven't lied to men, but to God." Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and died. Great fear came on all who heard these things.
Acts of the Apostles 5:1-5

Land was theirs and they were not forced to sell it. But they decided to betray and that was not good.

So, my opinion is, God and Jesus should be the most important thing to disciple of Jesus. It doesnt necessary mean today that you should give up of all your property, because you couldnt go to Jesus. But if your property is more important to you than Jesus, it is not good. If you couldnt give up all your property when Jesus comes to you and ask you to give up it, then you couldnt be his disciple. But as I said in the beginning of this, if you want to be disciple of Jesus, do as you understand that is his will. I may be wrong in this.

[Goat]

It seems to me that your point is You are not perfect, why should anyone else be. I admit that Im not perfect and probably not good example of how all should live. But then, Im not trying to get people to follow me. You should follow Jesus, not me, because Jesus is good example. If your intention is to be disciple of Jesus and you understand differently what Jesus says, do as you understand what Jesus said. Im not the one you should follow, Jesus is.

Why should one 'follow Jesus'? How is he a good example when he curses fig trees when the won't bear fruit out of season, murders pigs, tell people that they have to hate their family.. what is to follow with that kind of advice?

[riverslivnwtr]

It seems to me that your point is You are not perfect, why should anyone else be. I admit that Im not perfect and probably not good example of how all should live. But then, Im not trying to get people to follow me. You should follow Jesus, not me, because Jesus is good example. If your intention is to be disciple of Jesus and you understand differently what Jesus says, do as you understand what Jesus said. Im not the one you should follow, Jesus is.

Why should one 'follow Jesus'? How is he a good example when he curses fig trees when the won't bear fruit out of season, murders pigs, tell people that they have to hate their family.. what is to follow with that kind of advice?

well if you can get a hold of that power that he got there it sure would be something.. I mean if I can command things to do as I say hat sound like a lot of fun to me.. had it happen a couple times...and bacon prices???

and believe it or not... I hate my family also...

I believe and know that what Jesus was saying is prefer him above family..

oh by the way hello...

[notachance]

It seems to me that your point is You are not perfect, why should anyone else be. I admit that Im not perfect and probably not good example of how all should live. But then, Im not trying to get people to follow me. You should follow Jesus, not me, because Jesus is good example. If your intention is to be disciple of Jesus and you understand differently what Jesus says, do as you understand what Jesus said. Im not the one you should follow, Jesus is.

Why should one 'follow Jesus'? How is he a good example when he curses fig trees when the won't bear fruit out of season, murders pigs, tell people that they have to hate their family.. what is to follow with that kind of advice?

well if you can get a hold of that power that he got there it sure would be something.. I mean if I can command things to do as I say hat sound like a lot of fun to me.. had it happen a couple times...and bacon prices???

and believe it or not... I hate my family also...

I believe and know that what Jesus was saying is prefer him above family..

oh by the way hello...

Well, Jesus's powers are nothing compared to his father, Satan.