Atheism and morality vs. Christianity and morality

[Confused]

I have often heard that atheists are amoral and that Christianity offers the way to morality. This thread is quite simple then I guess.

1) Is there any evidence to link atheism and amorality? What?
2) Is there any evidence to link atheism and morality? What?
3) Is there any evidence to link Christianity and amorality? What?
4) Is there any evidence to link Christianity and morality? What?

[David 2.0]

If it works don't fix it.

Thats the boat I'm in.

An atheist that fully subscribes to the morality he learned as a christian.

Morality existed long before Christianity. Christianity or "God's law" is simply human logic, reason and common sense producing moral laws which some people later ascribe to deities.

Perhaps.
IMO they still nailed it.

[cholland]

How does the development of a physical material thing make immaterial concepts exist?

Simply because the physical material brain is capable of imagining immaterial concepts.

Yes, but the question is are they moral? I can imagine a concept such as furthering the human race by exterminating the ones who are not as smart or physical fit, but is it right? Christianity allows for a morality to exist to determine and strive to discover "what is right" while an atheist is left with all moral claims are false...there is nothing inherently "wrong" with scientific racism outside of my own thoughts. An atheist can only stand at the gates of Auschwitz and say "to me, this was wrong. But others, it could be right."

[Artie]

I can imagine a concept such as furthering the human race by exterminating the ones who are not as smart or physical fit, but is it right? Christianity allows for a morality to exist to determine and strive to discover "what is right" while an atheist is left with all moral claims are false...there is nothing inherently "wrong" with scientific racism outside of my own thoughts. An atheist can only stand at the gates of Auschwitz and say "to me, this was wrong. But others, it could be right."

Let us take another example: Abortion. There is no mention of abortion in the Christian Bible, nothing in the New Testament on the issue. (Wikipedia). Some denominations are pro-choice, some are pro-life and the opinions are also divided within the denominations. Where are the Christian morals which are supposed to tell us if abortion is right or wrong? Christians strive with this question just as non-theists do. For some Christian denominations abortion is right, for some it's wrong. Where are the absolute morals? Why does Christianity have trouble with defining exactly the same as people have trouble with defining? Because people are responsible for Christianity.

[Goat]

How does the development of a physical material thing make immaterial concepts exist?

Simply because the physical material brain is capable of imagining immaterial concepts.

Yes, but the question is are they moral? I can imagine a concept such as furthering the human race by exterminating the ones who are not as smart or physical fit, but is it right? Christianity allows for a morality to exist to determine and strive to discover "what is right" while an atheist is left with all moral claims are false...there is nothing inherently "wrong" with scientific racism outside of my own thoughts. An atheist can only stand at the gates of Auschwitz and say "to me, this was wrong. But others, it could be right."

Christainity allows lots of things.. such as slavery. ..

The Christian cherry picks what they want from the bible, and because of that, they follow the same process as the atheist, the Muslim, the Jew, the Hindu, and the taoist.

[cholland]

Let us take another example: Abortion. There is no mention of abortion in the Christian Bible, nothing in the New Testament on the issue. (Wikipedia). Some denominations are pro-choice, some are pro-life and the opinions are also divided within the denominations. Where are the Christian morals which are supposed to tell us if abortion is right or wrong? Christians strive with this question just as non-theists do. For some Christian denominations abortion is right, for some it's wrong. Where are the absolute morals?

I've said it at least 3 times:
Christianity allows for morals to exist and we are simply discovering them.
Christianity as a worldview, namely that there are immaterial "things" and concepts above and beyond humanity, allows for morals to "exist."
Christianity allows for a morality to exist to determine and strive to discover "what is right."

Does this mean that I have a master list of morals? No. Does the Pope? No. Does anyone in Christendom? No. We only know some things now, we strive to know more, and hope and look forward to the day when we will know fully. "In that day you will know..." John 14:20 "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully..." 1 Cor. 13:12

This explains the divisions in the church. Or stances on abortion. This does not mean morals do not exist, but simply we don't know them, but study and pray and ask the person they came from to reveal them. Just because we didn't fully know gravity did not mean it did not exist. Likewise, just because we don't fully know love, for example, does not mean it does not exist.

[Goat]

Let us take another example: Abortion. There is no mention of abortion in the Christian Bible, nothing in the New Testament on the issue. (Wikipedia). Some denominations are pro-choice, some are pro-life and the opinions are also divided within the denominations. Where are the Christian morals which are supposed to tell us if abortion is right or wrong? Christians strive with this question just as non-theists do. For some Christian denominations abortion is right, for some it's wrong. Where are the absolute morals?

I've said it at least 3 times:
Christianity allows for morals to exist and we are simply discovering them.
Christianity as a worldview, namely that there are immaterial "things" and concepts above and beyond humanity, allows for morals to "exist."
Christianity allows for a morality to exist to determine and strive to discover "what is right."

Does this mean that I have a master list of morals? No. Does the Pope? No. Does anyone in Christendom? No. We only know some things now, we strive to know more, and hope and look forward to the day when we will know fully. "In that day you will know..." John 14:20 "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully..." 1 Cor. 13:12

This explains the divisions in the church. Or stances on abortion. This does not mean morals do not exist, but simply we don't know them, but study and pray and ask the person they came from to reveal them. Just because we didn't fully know gravity did not mean it did not exist. Likewise, just because we don't fully know love, for example, does not mean it does not exist.

You make the claim, but you fail to show how Christianity is different that any other philosophy /religion. How is it different that any other philosophy, except for the claim of absolute morals?

[Artie]

I've said it at least 3 times:
Christianity allows for morals to exist and we are simply discovering them.

Of course not. Morals existed and was discovered long before Christianity as immaterial "things" and concepts. Christianity and "Gods laws" are simply human logic, reason and common sense morality ascribed to some deity. Just like what happened in any other religion.

This does not mean morals do not exist, but simply we don't know them, but study and pray and ask the person they came from to reveal them.

But I just told you that morals came from people ascribing them to a deity. Otherwise we would have clear cut guidelines in the Bible on the question of abortion for instance, but we don't because the people who wrote it didn't have clear cut guidelines on abortion.

[Autodidact]

If it works don't fix it.

Thats the boat I'm in.

An atheist that fully subscribes to the morality he learned as a christian.

But of course, many moralities that are claimed to be Christian don't work at all, they produce appalling results. In general, the Christians who don't like those results merely claim that they aren't "Really Christian." Therefore, by definition, Christian morality is always good. If it's bad, it's not Christian. I could of course make the same claim for Muslim, Hindu and Atheist morality, by employing the same fallacy.

[Autodidact]

If it works don't fix it.

Thats the boat I'm in.

An atheist that fully subscribes to the morality he learned as a christian.

Morality existed long before Christianity. Christianity or "God's law" is simply human logic, reason and common sense producing moral laws which some people later ascribe to deities.

Perhaps.
IMO they still nailed it.

Slavery is o.k. with you then? Also inequality of the sexes?

[David 2.0]

If it works don't fix it.

Thats the boat I'm in.

An atheist that fully subscribes to the morality he learned as a christian.

Morality existed long before Christianity. Christianity or "God's law" is simply human logic, reason and common sense producing moral laws which some people later ascribe to deities.

Perhaps.
IMO they still nailed it.

Slavery is o.k. with you then? Also inequality of the sexes?

See I missed those messages when I was a christian.
Believe it or not.

No slavery.
No inequality of the sexes.

We tended to focus on love.
Peace.
Compassion.
Do unto others.

What can I say, that is what I got out of it.

I would go out on a limb and say for the most part slavery and inequality of the sexes is a non-issue for most christians.

Its an atheist focus point? Not so much a christian one?