The Second Coming " Why would there be a need for a church

[polonius]

Four times in the New Testament it is recorded that Jesus would return during his generation. But he didnt. And this raises the question as to why if Jesus believed he was returning to found his kingdom on earth there would be any need for him to found a church.

Luke 9:27 'I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.'

Matthew 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not d taste death e until they see the Son of Manf coming in his kingdom."

Mark 9 And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not l taste death m until they see the kingdom of God after it has come n with power."

1Thes 4 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.


One religion has an interesting answer. They first claimed that Jesus would return in 1874, but when Jesus didnt they changed the date to 1914. They now insist that Jesus did return but he is invisible.

If so, how would they know he has returned?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 20 by rikuoamero]

Well I'm not in a position to speak for anybody but myself. Personally if I see or read convincing argumentation that causes me to believe I have been in error I think it would be foolish not to change my mind. There is no shame in that, its what makes us grow.

If the above happens here on this forum, I'll be sure to let you know.

JW

But enough about me... what do YOU think...about me (Just kidding). Maybe we should return to the topic at hand.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 21 by JehovahsWitness]

Well I'm not in a position to speak for anybody but myself.

Yet you were all too quick in Post number 6 to say

Because we (Jehovah's Witnesses) don't believe we are wrong on this. If one day we come to believe this is wrong we will change our beliefs; we have no problem changing our beliefs once we see we are wrong.

In other words, you spoke for other people.

Personally if I see or read convincing argumentation that causes me to believe I have been in error I think it would be foolish not to change my mind. There is no shame in that, its what makes us grow.

If the above happens here on this forum, I'll be sure to let you know.

Again, for the nth time...the Jesus prophecies. To date, you have been absolutely silent on that list, whenever it gets debunked.
Did my (or other people's) rebuttals come across as 'convincing argumentation'?

It's one thing to say you're willing to change your mind, that you find no shame in doing so...it's another thing altogether to actually do it.

Do you honestly believe that the list of prophecies you gave readers WAS fulfilled by Jesus?
Can you and are you willing to defend the truth of that list?
If you are unable to or unwilling to defend the truth of the list, why do you post it? Why are you apparently unwilling to acknowledge that you unable to or willing to defend it?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 8 by marco]

That's not a problem for us as we believe holy spirit makes everything clear in due time to but ONLY to spirit anointed true followers. Our belief is that those that are not of (or in support of) that number will remain in the dark on spiritual matters and will find such spiritual things "ambiguous", "vague" "confusing" even "foolish" (see 2 Cor 4:4; 1 Cor 3:19, 20)

Any religion can make such a claim, can't it?

That is correct, something like it or similar is part of most people's belief system. Others are welcome to believe the same thing. Those that come to be convinced we have the truth will join us, those that believe that we don't will either join another group or not as the case may be.




JW


Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe they have the one true religion?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 315#868315

[otseng]

[Replying to post 10 by rikuoamero]

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[Justin108]

Because we (Jehovah's Witnesses) don't believe we are wrong on this. If one day we come to believe this is wrong we will change our beliefs; we have no problem changing our beliefs once we see we are wrong.

This is fascinating JW. Readers and yourself will remember that a number of weeks ago, I (in my own estimation) demolished a claim from yourself that Jesus fulfilled prophecies,

Well all I can say is if ever *I* agree with YOUR estimation, I will be sure to let you know. I have nothing to report so far in this regard but thanks for sharing.

JW

Considering the fact that you could not form a rebuttal to rikuoamero's argument, I would say his estimation is quite accurate. You either could not or chose not to form a rebuttal. We all know which of these two are the most likely explanation for your sudden silence on the topic.

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 8 by marco]

That's not a problem for us as we believe holy spirit makes everything clear in due time to but ONLY to spirit anointed true followers. Our belief is that those that are not of (or in support of) that number will remain in the dark on spiritual matters and will find such spiritual things "ambiguous", "vague" "confusing" even "foolish" (see 2 Cor 4:4; 1 Cor 3:19, 20)

The last resort of the apologist. When one cannot form an actual argument, just say the holy spirit told you.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

Four times in the New Testament it is recorded that Jesus would return during his generation. But he didnt.

Bible got it wrong for obvious reasons.
Jesus' Second Coming was to rectify the wrong teachings that Paul, his associates and the Church had spread unauthorized from Jesus.
Jesus' Second Coming has already taken place in the spiritual form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908- the Promised Messiah, Imam Mahdi and End-Time Reformer of all religions. He has categorically stated that:

~no Jesus is to come from the skies as Jesus had not died on the Cross and died a natural death out of Judea .
~the concept of Trinity spread by the Church is wrong.
~Jesus was neither a God nor a Son of God in the literal and physical terms.
~there is no god by the name the Holy Spirit.
~There is only ONE God and none else.
~Jesus was a human being only and a truthful prophet/messenger of God.
~Jesus did not atone anybody's sins, it is ONE God who forgives sins of the persons who ask forgiveness from Him.
~Jesus neither established any new Church in his First Coming nor he is to establish a new church in his Second Coming.

This is in brief, please.
Regards
_____________
For more details one my like to read here https://www.alislam.org/library/books/J ... -India.pdf

[Mithrae]

Four times in the New Testament it is recorded that Jesus would return during his generation. But he didnt. And this raises the question as to why if Jesus believed he was returning to found his kingdom on earth there would be any need for him to found a church.

I'm not sure I understand the question. Is a 'generation' too short a time-frame for a sense of community and semi-formal organizational structure to be useful?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 8 by marco]

That's not a problem for us as we believe holy spirit makes everything clear in due time to but ONLY to spirit anointed true followers. Our belief is that those that are not of (or in support of) that number will remain in the dark on spiritual matters and will find such spiritual things "ambiguous", "vague" "confusing" even "foolish" (see 2 Cor 4:4; 1 Cor 3:19, 20)

Moderator Comment

Claiming special divine insight on a particular matter such as this can be considered preaching. Please refrain and support your claim by more mundane means of debate. Thank you.

This post would be considered to not comply with the guidelines on preaching. Please read through the guidelines and abide by them.


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Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Justin108]

What exactly happened in these 100 years? And what happens after these 100 years? What exactly changed between October 2014 and November 2014? Curious how 100 years of Jesus' rule is indistinguishable from nothing at all happening whatsoever.