Where Does The Bible Address Muhammad And The Rise Of Islam?

[Matthew S Islam]

Greetings,

I'm curious to know how Christians make sense of the emergence and subsequent dominance of Islam from a Biblical standpoint.

The Islamic tradition was a successful enterprise both on a religious and political level. Muslims proclaim that their religion was completed; their scriptures and exegesis are preserved; and the immediate followers of Muhammad conquered the Persians and Romans.
Islam has survived the test of time and is currently the main opponent to Christian propagation. If one were to compare between the claims objectively, then the least we could say is that Islam poses a threat to the Christian narrative.

1) Does the Bible explicitly foretell the coming of Prophet Muhammad and the Islamic tradition?

I'm aware of Paul's censure of different Gospels and false apostles. What I'm looking for are explicit references to the fore-coming clash between the religions i.e. Clear Prophecies.

2) Considering how our circumstances are ultimately Destined and Willed by God, then would it not be reasonable for us to expect God to adequately address this dilemma? He could have revealed explicit prophecies and guidance concerning it, or He could've weakened the intellectual threat of the opponent.

As of now I feel as though Islam caught Christianity off-guard and I'm not sure how to make sense of that.

Feel free to share your thoughts.

[Matthew S Islam]

Why do you think Christians did not have the guidance they needed?

It doesn't seem sensible for the Christian God to allow a religion like Islam to exist. It would've made more sense if He made Islam blatantly absurd like Mormonism, or He could've revealed prophecies so direct that it would play in Christianity's favour.

Why is Islam a threat to a Christian's salvation?

1. Christianity is founded on believing Jesus died on the cross, and then was resurrected and raised.

Islam teaches that Jesus wasn't killed nor crucified, but it was only made to appear as if he was.

2. The Prophet Muhammad was both religiously and politically successful. The religion was delivered to us by his immediate companions who went on to conquer the Romans and Persians shortly after Muhammad's death.
Furthermore, Islam experienced a "Golden Age" in its history, and interestingly enough, this was when Europe and political Christianity were, in what is popularly referred to as, the "Dark Ages".

3. Islam is capable of making loftier claims than Christianity in order to prove its Divine origins.

Muslims believe the Quran is a miracle and sign from God which demonstrates Divinity of the book. For example, they'll argue the Quran's a linguistic miracle; preserved through memorization; contains prophecies; historical accuracy; numerical phenomenas that were only recently discovered; scientific consistency; infallibility; etc.

Christians don't typically argue for the infallibility of the Bible. Christian scholars openly admit that some contradictions do exist. There's also the question surrounding the New Testament documents, the Gospels that are lost in history, the authors of these texts and their authority, etc.

The main point is: Islam makes superior claims to rationalize the Divinity of its religion, so therefore it is an intellectual threat to Christian propogation.

This is very general and it would help me understand your point if you could give us specific examples of the explicit information and every tribulation Islam has faced through these years? For this point to go through you'd also have to show how Islam is more cohesive and Divine than any other religion including those that have gone before.

I'm on my phone at the moment and it'll he hassle to bring references, but everything I'm saying is well known and accepted by the mainstream.

Firstly, I never claimed that every tribulation was explicitly foretold. That would be ridiculous and unnecessary. However, the Prophet prophecized the stages his nation would go through, the major tribulations they'd face, signs which indicate the times, and also the victory that is to come.

1. The Prophet foretold the trials that would take place between his companions and provided the criteria for discerning the oppressive party.

The Prophet said "The oppressive party will kill Ammar ibn Yaasir".

His death was used by the companions during their lives to justify their political positions, and has influenced the nation at large by closing sectarian doors.

2. The Prophet explicity foretold the minor and major signs of the End Times.

There are many videos on YouTube by popular Shaykhs/Imams who give sermons on this. Check out Yasir Qadhi, Hamza Yusuf, and whatever that leads you to -- especially the concept of Dajjal; The False Messiah.

The End Times prophecies are precisely how Muslims are able to rationalize their condition in this day and age.
Like, perhaps you would think: Your condition is so terrible at the moment, doesn't it imply that your religion is false? Where is your God?
It's a valid question on some level. However for the Muslim the closer we get to the Dajjal--the harder the trial will get. So, on the contrary, our being weak in these specific times is a proof for the truthfulness of Islam.

[JehovahsWitness]

Why do you think Christians did not have the guidance they needed?

It doesn't seem sensible for the Christian God to allow a religion like Islam to exist.

If God allows Satan the Devil to exist why would he not allow false religions to exist?

According to the biblical narrative when God instigated the tabernacle and gave the Israelites his laws as to how he wanted to be worshipped, he didn't wipe out all pagan religions. Indeed some of those pagan religions adversely affected True worship but still he allowed them to exist side by side.

Jesus himself predicted the advent of false Prophets that would mislead many with twisted teachings, so clearly the existence of both true and false religion has its basis in scripture. Indeed Jesus suggested that those that serve God would be in the minority.

Given the above, upon what basis then do you suggest that God would not allow Christianity and Islam to coexist?

According to a 2010 study and released January 2011, Islam has 1.5 billion adherents, making up over 22% of the world population.

JW




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[William]

[Replying to post 22 by JehovahsWitness]



Classic! Funny as!

[Tcg]

According to a 2010 study and released January 2011, Islam has 1.5 billion adherents, making up over 22% of the world population.

JW

Another study estimates that Christianity has 2.4 billion followers, making up roughly 33% of the world population. It is your religion that is the majority religion. That makes it the path on the right hand side of your graphic.


Tcg

[The Tanager]

It doesn't seem sensible for the Christian God to allow a religion like Islam to exist. It would've made more sense if He made Islam blatantly absurd like Mormonism, or He could've revealed prophecies so direct that it would play in Christianity's favour.

More specifics would still be helpful. Why do you feel Mormonism is blatantly absurd? Why is Islam not?

1. Christianity is founded on believing Jesus died on the cross, and then was resurrected and raised.

Islam teaches that Jesus wasn't killed nor crucified, but it was only made to appear as if he was.

And you think the Islamic teaching has more credibility? If so, why?

2. The Prophet Muhammad was both religiously and politically successful. The religion was delivered to us by his immediate companions who went on to conquer the Romans and Persians shortly after Muhammad's death.
Furthermore, Islam experienced a "Golden Age" in its history, and interestingly enough, this was when Europe and political Christianity were, in what is popularly referred to as, the "Dark Ages".

Christianity was both religiously and politically successful. Although, it is true that Muslims were more immediately focused on political success than Christians. I would say that is advantage Christianity.

I've heard a few recent historians quoted as saying the Dark Ages were anything but, however, that was in passing and I didn't keep track of who said it. Are you saying Christianity never had a comparable "Golden Age"? What characteristics does a "Golden Age" have? Why is it a good thing?

3. Islam is capable of making loftier claims than Christianity in order to prove its Divine origins.

Why is a lofty claim evidence of truth? Mormons make some lofty claims, too. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here.

Muslims believe the Quran is a miracle and sign from God which demonstrates Divinity of the book. For example, they'll argue the Quran's a linguistic miracle; preserved through memorization; contains prophecies; historical accuracy; numerical phenomenas that were only recently discovered; scientific consistency; infallibility; etc.

That doesn't mean they are good arguments. I'm open to hearing any of them.

Christians don't typically argue for the infallibility of the Bible. Christian scholars openly admit that some contradictions do exist. There's also the question surrounding the New Testament documents, the Gospels that are lost in history, the authors of these texts and their authority, etc.

The main point is: Islam makes superior claims to rationalize the Divinity of its religion, so therefore it is an intellectual threat to Christian propogation.

Maybe you mean something else by "infallibility" but tons of Christians believe the Bible contains no errors, including scholars. The historical quest for Jesus has gone through a few different stages. You paint it in a lopsided way. A similar historical quest is beginning to get off the ground concerning Islam with similar liberal interpretations of it. Ultimately, though, it comes down to whether the arguments are sound. Your conclusions are too vaguely supported as they stand, but you've only had a few posts. I'd love to explore the issues further with you.

Firstly, I never claimed that every tribulation was explicitly foretold. That would be ridiculous and unnecessary. However, the Prophet prophecized the stages his nation would go through, the major tribulations they'd face, signs which indicate the times, and also the victory that is to come.

1. The Prophet foretold the trials that would take place between his companions and provided the criteria for discerning the oppressive party.

The Prophet said "The oppressive party will kill Ammar ibn Yaasir".

His death was used by the companions during their lives to justify their political positions, and has influenced the nation at large by closing sectarian doors.

2. The Prophet explicity foretold the minor and major signs of the End Times.

There are many videos on YouTube by popular Shaykhs/Imams who give sermons on this. Check out Yasir Qadhi, Hamza Yusuf, and whatever that leads you to -- especially the concept of Dajjal; The False Messiah.

Christians will point to prophecies, like the destruction of the temple and signs of the End Times as well. I think End Times talk is often too vague to be of any use. If you want to share the ideas from the sermons, I'm all ears.

The End Times prophecies are precisely how Muslims are able to rationalize their condition in this day and age.
Like, perhaps you would think: Your condition is so terrible at the moment, doesn't it imply that your religion is false? Where is your God?
It's a valid question on some level. However for the Muslim the closer we get to the Dajjal--the harder the trial will get. So, on the contrary, our being weak in these specific times is a proof for the truthfulness of Islam.

I don't think one can judge God by the comfort of their lives. Jesus taught there will be suffering for his followers, too. I don't think that is proof of the truthfulness of Christians, nor your trials proof of Islam.

[William]

[Replying to post 25 by The Tanager]

\


Sorry...couldn't resist...

[marco]

It doesn't seem sensible for the Christian God to allow a religion like Islam to exist. It would've made more sense if He made Islam blatantly absurd like Mormonism, or He could've revealed prophecies so direct that it would play in Christianity's favour.

In Islam there are jinn and tales of Muhammad ascending the cosmic heights to parley with God and bargain about prayer quotas. God allows absurdities.

Islam teaches that Jesus wasn't killed nor crucified, but it was only made to appear as if he was.

Muhammad taught this, and it was quite astute. Presumably the illiterate trader learned much from a Nestorian priest who had heretical ideas about Jesus. I like: "Allah forbid that Allah should have a son!" That would have made the armed tribesmen smile and cheer.

Furthermore, Islam experienced a "Golden Age" in its history, and interestingly enough, this was when Europe and political Christianity were, in what is popularly referred to as, the "Dark Ages".

We are dealing with military might here, not religious ideas. And the term "Dark Ages" has been revisited by historians. It doesn't mean that ignorance descended.

Islam is capable of making loftier claims than Christianity in order to prove its Divine origins.

What's the point of CLAIMING? We can all do that. Islam was invented by Muhammad at the right time and the right place, like a forest fire catching trees at the right time. He was circumspect in making God speak his wishes:



" Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his wives after him at any time." I think this is lovely.

Muslims believe the Quran is a miracle and sign from God which demonstrates Divinity of the book. For example, they'll argue the Quran's a linguistic miracle; preserved through memorization; contains prophecies; historical accuracy; numerical phenomenas that were only recently discovered; scientific consistency; infallibility; etc.

This is argued for the Bible too. If we search hard enough we can conjure up clever surprises. I've read much of what is claimed as scientific Koranic prediction but a lot depends on how a word is cleverly translated. It may be that in Arabic the Koran is as good as Shakespeare but in English it is repetitive and in places disturbing. One man's meat is another man's poison.

Christians don't typically argue for the infallibility of the Bible.

God wrote out the Decalogue which Moses stupidly broke. Muhammad had the ingenious idea - or his first wife did - of saying God dictated (as if!!!) the words. Anyway, the result is that billions have been bullied or bludgeoned into accepting it all so we must give Muhammad a high place in history, with Caesar and Plato.

[Matthew S Islam]

Hello

If God allows Satan the Devil to exist why would he not allow false religions to exist?

According to the biblical narrative when God instigated the tabernacle and gave the Israelites his laws as to how he wanted to be worshipped, he didn't wipe out all pagan religions. Indeed some of those pagan religions adversely affected True worship but still he allowed them to exist side by side.

I don't have an issue with the mere existence of deviant religions. False religions are evils paths which mislead people away from the purity of God's religion. Life is a test and the false religions are obstacles which distinguish the faithful from the unfaithful.
However my contention is specific to the threat which Islam poses, and the theological inconsistencies it creates for the "Christian God".

Jesus himself predicted the advent of false Prophets that would mislead many with twisted teachings, so clearly the existence of both true and false religion has its basis in scripture. Indeed Jesus suggested that those that serve God would be in the minority.

Given the above, upon what basis then do you suggest that God would not allow Christianity and Islam to coexist?

The problem with Jesus' warnings is that they're too vague and incapable of defusing the intellectual threat of Islam. It doesn't take a Prophet to write a document and warn your readers not to deviate from its teachings. In order to justify the emergence of Islam and the qualities God Willed for it to have, you would need a Prophecy so direct that it would nullify the persuasion of Islam.

Similarly we have Paul warning us against his opposition:

"For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough." [2 Corinthians 11:4]

"For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ." [2 Corinthians 11:13]

Although we're grateful for the information he's sharing, we're sadly restricted to his version of history and his unique theology. Now unless you don't see anything wrong with blindly accepting his verdicts, there doesn't seem to be a viable option other than entertaining the possibility that Christianity is fundamentally inconsistent and unmendable.

[marco]

Although we're grateful for the information he's sharing, we're sadly restricted to his version of history and his unique theology. Now unless you don't see anything wrong with blindly accepting his verdicts, there doesn't seem to be a viable option other than entertaining the possibility that Christianity is fundamentally inconsistent and unmendable.

And since Islam is a derivative of Judaism and Christianity, such criticism applies to Islam a fortiori. The Abrahamic religions are built on vagueness, admitting various interpretations. Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims are as much opposed as Catholics and Protestants. It would be interesting to suppose there's a kernel of truth somewhere, but no one seems to have discovered it.

[marco]

And you think the Islamic teaching has more credibility? If so, why?

The fault is in the negligence of Jesus. Muhammad had hindsight on his side and if Jesus had foresight, he didn't use it well.

Muhammad got dictation from God, not just inspiration.
Muhammad dispensed with the Trinity, re-establishing the one, jealous God. And true monotheism.

Muhammad modestly set himself up as the FINAL prophet, whereas Jesus was one in a long line.

And of course when one reads the Koran, albeit in translation, one immediately understands it is divinely written; it has Allah's signature everywhere, and Allah takes time to commend his faithful Prophet Muhammad. Not just a work of art but a work of political genius!