Why no straight answers?

[Zzyzx]

.
After eight years debating here I have YET to encounter a defender of fundamentalism / literalism / traditionalism (or the Bible in general) who will openly, accurately, honestly answer fundamental questions about Christian beliefs – including the following (with truthful answers in bold font)

What verifiable evidence exists (beyond Bible tales and claims, opinions, testimonials and speculation) to substantiate that:

Jesus was anything more than human? None

Humans possess a soul? None

An afterlife exists? None

Miracles described in Bible tales actually occurred? None

Any of the claimed events such as floods, earthquakes, darkening sky, star stopping, Earth ceasing rotation, etc occurred as described? None

God intercedes in human affairs or life events? None

Bible writers were actually inspired by God? None



Why no answers? Could it be refusal to admit that in the absence of verifiable information, accepting the basic beliefs of Christianity must be based on "Take my (or his) word for it" and that doing so is not a rational basis for making decisions on matters of importance?

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 259 by Clownboat]

Please cut/paste where I equated the whole of Islam as to being suicide bombers

Both actions are done due to their religious beliefs.
Muslims are willing to blow themselves up for theirs, Christians are just willing to put band aides on people in dangerous neighborhoods.

Who has the greater religious conviction here?
Welcome to the Islamic faith.

You are speaking of Muslims and " the Islamic faith" in general here . I corrected your generalization, as I knew what you intended Should I have thought you were doing this on purpose , I would have handled it in a different manner. You are equating a whole religion to suicide bombing, very insultive , but I do not believe that was your intention.

You should have gone with your gut then, I bold'd it for you. I'm going to assume it was also obvious to the readers here that to think I was saying "all Muslims are suicide bombers" is asinine.

I also find it asinine that you think you corrected some generalization I made while admitting you "knew my intent" and "didn't believe that my intent was to claim all Muslims were in fact suicide bombers.

Perhaps I could get you to actually address something I have been saying instead of things you imagine me saying. You even quoted it above, but chose to disregard it to instead harp on about some generalization you think I made while also admitting you knew I wasn't.

Once again, again: (I'll change the wording in hopes to keep you on track)
There are Muslims that are willing to blow themselves up for their faith, Some Christians are just willing to put band aides on people in dangerous neighborhoods.

Who has the greater religious conviction and faith here?

How great is your faith in comparison?

[arian]

[Replying to Zzyzx]

Mr. Z!!!

It could be that none of those questions are answered on here, because the evidence that is pointed to God, some give other credit to its origins. An example is creation. Creation points the evidence to God, but some give credit to (name your choice). God, does and is constantly working in my life, but some just say, "Hey, you would be the same person without Him." Knowing my life before Him, I know this is not true.

The following is an interesting article on Jesus. Most people did not read or write back then. The leaders of the Jewish church didn't much care for Jesus Why would they document something that threatened the church as they knew it?http://www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancient ... an-sources.

I don't have time to look up more sources, but these questions really intrigue me. If Christianity was so far fetched, what accounts for historically billions of followers? Many people have claimed to have seen Heaven upon dying for a brief time, why are they similar experiences?

Millions or Billions of people following anything does not add any credence to it being true........what accounts for similar amounts of people thinking Islam or Hindu is truth based on your observation of Christianity?..........especially, when those claiming Christian have doctrines so diverse as to be heretical to the claims of each other? After all, there was a time when most humans believed the earth was flat and the sky was a dome pulled over it.

Lets talk science, and go by actual observation;
Please explain: When I'm standing up straight here in the US, am I standing on the 'down slope' of the earth (meaning when I walk let's say from South to North, or from East to West etc.) am I walking up-hill on the round Earth, .. or am I always standing on a flat surface at the very tip of the Globe?

When I walk any direction, am I not always on a flat surface (tip of the Globe)? So we are always standing, walking on a flat Earth right? See, scientific observation tells us that for anyone traveling on the earth, the earth is flat at all times (except when a hill/mountain shows up in our path).

Oxygen starved brains create illusions which follow a similar physiology or vision that are you referring to as far as any "heaven" claims...........and that is what happens to the brain when it is dying, or during fainting, heart attack, stroke, etc.......nothing unusual there.

Yes, I have seen drunk people walk, and they seem to be leaning forward as if they were walking on the down-slope of the earth (like someone walking downhill) and fall forward. Is this phenomena because they are scientists and understand that the earth is round? You know, just a psychological/visual effect, or because even though the earth is flat under their feet, they are just drunk which gives that 'illusion' that the earth before them is sloping down?

Please give me a straight answer?

Thanks.

[H.sapiens]

[Replying to Zzyzx]

Mr. Z!!!

It could be that none of those questions are answered on here, because the evidence that is pointed to God, some give other credit to its origins. An example is creation. Creation points the evidence to God, but some give credit to (name your choice). God, does and is constantly working in my life, but some just say, "Hey, you would be the same person without Him." Knowing my life before Him, I know this is not true.

The following is an interesting article on Jesus. Most people did not read or write back then. The leaders of the Jewish church didn't much care for Jesus Why would they document something that threatened the church as they knew it?http://www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancient ... an-sources.

I don't have time to look up more sources, but these questions really intrigue me. If Christianity was so far fetched, what accounts for historically billions of followers? Many people have claimed to have seen Heaven upon dying for a brief time, why are they similar experiences?

Millions or Billions of people following anything does not add any credence to it being true........what accounts for similar amounts of people thinking Islam or Hindu is truth based on your observation of Christianity?..........especially, when those claiming Christian have doctrines so diverse as to be heretical to the claims of each other? After all, there was a time when most humans believed the earth was flat and the sky was a dome pulled over it.

Lets talk science, and go by actual observation;
Please explain: When I'm standing up straight here in the US, am I standing on the 'down slope' of the earth (meaning when I walk let's say from South to North, or from East to West etc.) am I walking up-hill on the round Earth, .. or am I always standing on a flat surface at the very tip of the Globe?

When I walk any direction, am I not always on a flat surface (tip of the Globe)? So we are always standing, walking on a flat Earth right? See, scientific observation tells us that for anyone traveling on the earth, the earth is flat at all times (except when a hill/mountain shows up in our path).

Oxygen starved brains create illusions which follow a similar physiology or vision that are you referring to as far as any "heaven" claims...........and that is what happens to the brain when it is dying, or during fainting, heart attack, stroke, etc.......nothing unusual there.

Yes, I have seen drunk people walk, and they seem to be leaning forward as if they were walking on the down-slope of the earth (like someone walking downhill) and fall forward. Is this phenomena because they are scientists and understand that the earth is round? You know, just a psychological/visual effect, or because even though the earth is flat under their feet, they are just drunk which gives that 'illusion' that the earth before them is sloping down?

Please give me a straight answer?

Thanks.

Even the dumbest, most primitive sailor knows the earth is curved.

[Zzyzx]

.

Lets talk science, and go by actual observation;
Please explain: When I'm standing up straight here in the US, am I standing on the 'down slope' of the earth

When I have addressed elementary school level students as a guest speaker, I ask similar questions and let them work out answers. They typically do a pretty fair job with very little coaching.

A favorite question I use is to ask them to decide what "up" and "down" mean. They may struggle a bit but come close to a correct answer – which is that down means toward the center of the Earth and up means the opposite.

We extend that concept to decide that up and down have no meaning in free space / the universe.

(meaning when I walk let's say from South to North, or from East to West etc.) am I walking up-hill on the round Earth, .. or am I always standing on a flat surface at the very tip of the Globe?

Compass directions are human concepts useful in navigation but are not an actual feature or characteristic of the Earth. There are no grid lines marked on the Earth and no marked equator. Though they may be depicted on globes or maps, they are only imaginary lines.

Since the spheroidal Earth (actually an oblate spheroid or ellipsoid of revolution) is in rotational motion, a hypothetical (not physical) axis can be proposed. The points at which that hypothetical axis intersects the Earth surface are assigned the name poles and one is arbitrarily called "north" and the other "south" (in the English language). Neither of those terms has any meaning away from the Earth.

Viewed from distant space, the Earth is simply a spinning ball.

When I walk any direction, am I not always on a flat surface (tip of the Globe)?

A sphere (or spheroid) has no "tip" and no flat surfaces (except perhaps very locally / limited areas) just as a beach ball has no tip and a ball bearing has no flat surfaces (beyond microscopic level).

Most people have noticed that the Earth contains non-flat surfaces (hills, mountains, valleys, volcanic cones, etc). Although the Earth may seem quite rugged in places to us, it is smoother in scale than a piece of paper. Although the Earth is "bulged" at the equator it is closer to true spherical than most ball bearings (.003% tolerance).

Disclosure: I taught these topics in freshman university geology classes fifty years ago.

So we are always standing, walking on a flat Earth right?

Wrong.

See, scientific observation tells us that for anyone traveling on the earth, the earth is flat at all times (except when a hill/mountain shows up in our path).

Scientific observation tells no such thing.

The illusion of flatness is not in accord with the reality of a spherical surface.

[H.sapiens]

[Replying to Zzyzx]

Mr. Z!!!

It could be that none of those questions are answered on here, because the evidence that is pointed to God, some give other credit to its origins. An example is creation. Creation points the evidence to God, but some give credit to (name your choice). God, does and is constantly working in my life, but some just say, "Hey, you would be the same person without Him." Knowing my life before Him, I know this is not true.

The following is an interesting article on Jesus. Most people did not read or write back then. The leaders of the Jewish church didn't much care for Jesus Why would they document something that threatened the church as they knew it?http://www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancient ... an-sources.

I don't have time to look up more sources, but these questions really intrigue me. If Christianity was so far fetched, what accounts for historically billions of followers? Many people have claimed to have seen Heaven upon dying for a brief time, why are they similar experiences?

Millions or Billions of people following anything does not add any credence to it being true........what accounts for similar amounts of people thinking Islam or Hindu is truth based on your observation of Christianity?..........especially, when those claiming Christian have doctrines so diverse as to be heretical to the claims of each other? After all, there was a time when most humans believed the earth was flat and the sky was a dome pulled over it.

Lets talk science, and go by actual observation;
Please explain: When I'm standing up straight here in the US, am I standing on the 'down slope' of the earth (meaning when I walk let's say from South to North, or from East to West etc.) am I walking up-hill on the round Earth, .. or am I always standing on a flat surface at the very tip of the Globe?

When I walk any direction, am I not always on a flat surface (tip of the Globe)? So we are always standing, walking on a flat Earth right? See, scientific observation tells us that for anyone traveling on the earth, the earth is flat at all times (except when a hill/mountain shows up in our path).

Oxygen starved brains create illusions which follow a similar physiology or vision that are you referring to as far as any "heaven" claims...........and that is what happens to the brain when it is dying, or during fainting, heart attack, stroke, etc.......nothing unusual there.

Yes, I have seen drunk people walk, and they seem to be leaning forward as if they were walking on the down-slope of the earth (like someone walking downhill) and fall forward. Is this phenomena because they are scientists and understand that the earth is round? You know, just a psychological/visual effect, or because even though the earth is flat under their feet, they are just drunk which gives that 'illusion' that the earth before them is sloping down?

Please give me a straight answer?

Thanks.

A course in spherical trigonometry will answer all your questions and cure all your misunderstandings (at least those that stem from problems with geodesy).

[arian]

Even the dumbest, most primitive sailor knows the earth is curved.

So what? Even the dumbest, most primitive sailor knows God exists, what does that prove? Example, let me ask you: "Do YOU believe God exists?" See what I mean?

Oh you mean by observing the sky meeting the ocean? If the earth was flat, you'd see the same thing no?

What's a big step for man, what about 3 feet? Tell me, what's the curvature of the earth within that 3 feet? Pretty flat wouldn't you say? See, the earth is flat when we are walking, which means we could disagree on just about everything. I could show you the Evidence of God that the most primitive sailor believes exists, and yet defying all logic, you keep denying His existence.

[H.sapiens]

Even the dumbest, most primitive sailor knows the earth is curved.

So what? Even the dumbest, most primitive sailor knows God exists, what does that prove? Example, let me ask you: "Do YOU believe God exists?" See what I mean?

Oh you mean by observing the sky meeting the ocean? If the earth was flat, you'd see the same thing no?

What's a big step for man, what about 3 feet? Tell me, what's the curvature of the earth within that 3 feet? Pretty flat wouldn't you say? See, the earth is flat when we are walking, which means we could disagree on just about everything. I could show you the Evidence of God that the most primitive sailor believes exists, and yet defying all logic, you keep denying His existence.

Evidently you do not go down to the sea in ships.

No, what the dumbest, most primitive sailor sees is that you first sight the top of a mast or the peak of a mountain and then as you get closer more and more comes into sight. So even the dumbest, most primitive sailor knows the world is spherical as a result of direct observation that is shared and confirmed by everyone who has made a similar observation. That's what ... very different than religion, remember, direct and reproducible observation ... that's the key!

[Zzyzx]

.

Even the dumbest, most primitive sailor knows the earth is curved.

So what? Even the dumbest, most primitive sailor knows God exists, what does that prove? Example, let me ask you: "Do YOU believe God exists?" See what I mean?

Oh you mean by observing the sky meeting the ocean? If the earth was flat, you'd see the same thing no?

Those who live by the sea understand that a ship leaving port disappears "from the bottom up" – meaning that the hull passes from view while the superstructure (or sails) remain in view but gradually disappear until only the very top is visible.

Once that tip is no longer visible the ship cannot be seen even with the most powerful telescope at ground level. Raise the telescope and the ship can again be seen – for a while – but it will again disappear "from the bottom up". With further ship travel it cannot be seen even from the tallest building with a very powerful telescope.

Explain that with the flat Earth concept.

What's a big step for man, what about 3 feet? Tell me, what's the curvature of the earth within that 3 feet? Pretty flat wouldn't you say?

Since curvature of the Earth is approximately 8 inches per mile, the amount in three feet is 0.00454545 inches. A person cannot detect that much curvature BUT a surveyor can and must. Perhaps that means that the Earth is "flat" to people who limit themselves to what they can see within three feet.

See, the earth is flat when we are walking,

If we are walking downhill does that mean that the Earth is a valley?

which means we could disagree on just about everything.

Can you disagree with: If you hold a rock at arm's length and shoulder height standing anywhere on the Earth's land surface and release the rock it will fall unless supported.

I could show you the Evidence of God that the most primitive sailor believes exists, and yet defying all logic, you keep denying His existence.

Can you show evidence of God that any modern person can verify as truthful and accurate?

I maintain that ANY of the thousands of "gods" worshiped, loved, feared, and fought over by humans MAY exist – awaiting only sound, verifiable evidence upon which to make a reasoned decision which, if any, actually exist.

[arian]

.

Lets talk science, and go by actual observation;
Please explain: When I'm standing up straight here in the US, am I standing on the 'down slope' of the earth

'When I have addressed elementary school level students as a guest speaker, I ask similar questions and let them work out answers. They typically do a pretty fair job with very little coaching.

Hello Z, thanks for the response sir.
I see you have your sleeves rolled up, so as one of your student's (you have taught me a lot), so using the things I have learned from you and life in general, let's see if I can be a worthy debating opponent.

First, you said regarding the elementary school kids; "with a little coaching". Well as you know I came from a former communist country where I have witnessed how the meaning of God as Creator, provider, helper in need has changed to a cuss word, all with a "little coaching". I'm sure you can work out how that happened, right?
The same way as today the word 'science' has become to mean "Evolution" and "Big-Bang", all by a teeny-tiny 'coaching' suggestions like saying "60 million years ago, .. dinosaurs, .. your ancestor the apes" etc. that children will associate with evolution. All has come about by that "little coaching", agreed?

A favorite question I use is to ask them to decide what "up" and "down" mean. They may struggle a bit but come close to a correct answer – which is that down means toward the center of the Earth and up means the opposite.

Doesn't seem you had much influence on the kids Z, people including scientists still refer to North as Up. Back in Detroit everyone would say; "Going up north fishing/hunting this year John?" or "Where are the Smiths?" "Oh, they're Up North vacationing in their cabins!" When we planned on going to Miami or Ft. Lauderdale in the winter, we said; "We're driving down to Miami for a week."
I bet if you went now, what 50 years later, back to school and asked the kids, they would still refer to anything North of them as going Up, and anything South as going down. I know this because my children are still in school, and never heard them or anyone saying: "We're going down towards the center of the earth to Miami for a week"??

But yes Z, I understand what you mean.

We extend that concept to decide that up and down have no meaning in free space / the universe.

I wonder when Astronauts are in danger in space, something like a fire, or meteor hit, in those critical last moments if they still think of Heaven as being "Up there" and hell as being "down there"?
Besides, does 'above' still mean up and 'below' still mean down in space? Because in Star Wars I heard the 'Red Leader' tell Mr. Solo: "Solo, you have a tie Fighter right above you!" So not to be sarcastic or anything, I still believe 'up' and 'down' has the same meaning even in space!? But then I'm not a teacher, right?

(meaning when I walk let's say from South to North, or from East to West etc.) am I walking up-hill on the round Earth, .. or am I always standing on a flat surface at the very tip of the Globe?

Compass directions are human concepts useful in navigation but are not an actual feature or characteristic of the Earth. There are no grid lines marked on the Earth and no marked equator. Though they may be depicted on globes or maps, they are only imaginary lines.

Thank you sir, I will try to remember that and stop looking for them while driving cross country. (feel like a fool now that you mention it, what was I thinking?)

Since the spheroidal Earth (actually an oblate spheroid or ellipsoid of revolution) is in rotational motion, a hypothetical (not physical) axis can be proposed. The points at which that hypothetical axis intersects the Earth surface are assigned the name poles and one is arbitrarily called "north" and the other "south" (in the English language). Neither of those terms has any meaning away from the Earth.

Viewed from distant space, the Earth is simply a spinning ball.

Yes sir. So if an Astronaut was to report from space to another astronaut that he just seen a nuclear bomb go off at the top of the North Pole, no one would understand him? "Wha, .. top, ... North, .. what the hell you talking about man, all I see is a spinning ball!?"

Personal Moderator question Z, could we consider your responses as 'condescending'? Just asking?

When I walk any direction, am I not always on a flat surface (tip of the Globe)?

A sphere (or spheroid) has no "tip" and no flat surfaces (except perhaps very locally / limited areas) just as a beach ball has no tip and a ball bearing has no flat surfaces (beyond microscopic level).

Most people have noticed that the Earth contains non-flat surfaces (hills, mountains, valleys, volcanic cones, etc). Although the Earth may seem quite rugged in places to us, it is smoother in scale than a piece of paper. Although the Earth is "bulged" at the equator it is closer to true spherical than most ball bearings (.003% tolerance).

Disclosure: I taught these topics in freshman university geology classes fifty years ago.

I understand sir. So a 26,600 feet high mountain sticking out of the earth can be considered "smoother then paper" in comparison, but walking on the earth like through the desert, or driving through Kansas could not be considered flat?

Hey, you're the teacher, and I'm on probation, so what can I say but; yes sir!

So we are always standing, walking on a flat Earth right?

Wrong.

yes sir. I was just thinking stupid, considering that the earth curves .0012626 of an inch per feet, and since our feet is the only thing touching the ground, it may seem flat!? Unless you can feel the .001 inch difference (that's 1/4 of the diameter of our hair difference) from the back to the front of your feet? I'd say that's pretty darn flat, .. but that would be delusional right?

See, scientific observation tells us that for anyone traveling on the earth, the earth is flat at all times (except when a hill/mountain shows up in our path).

Scientific observation tells no such thing.

Yes sir, .. I must have heard them refer "We need a nice big flat surface for this experiment, like the California Salt Flats" to something else then, not for a flat surface on earth obviously, cause that would be delusional.

The illusion of flatness is not in accord with the reality of a spherical surface.

Again you are correct, so reading in a science journal about; "driving endlessly through the hot, dry flat desert" should be restated: "driving through the hot, dry, spherical desert" correct?
When will we ever learn? 'The sun comes up, the sun goes down, .. were driving up, and others driving down for vacation, .. living in the flatlands with not even a hill around' etc. people just don't learn I guess?

Thanks for that educational debate.

[Zzyzx]

.

Lets talk science, and go by actual observation;
Please explain: When I'm standing up straight here in the US, am I standing on the 'down slope' of the earth

'When I have addressed elementary school level students as a guest speaker, I ask similar questions and let them work out answers. They typically do a pretty fair job with very little coaching.

Hello Z, thanks for the response sir.
I see you have your sleeves rolled up, so as one of your student's (you have taught me a lot), so using the things I have learned from you and life in general, let's see if I can be a worthy debating opponent.

First, you said regarding the elementary school kids; "with a little coaching".

Correction: What I actually said was "with very little coaching" – which conveys a different meaning to astute readers than "with a little coaching". It implies that the students arrived at conclusions with very little assistance.

Well as you know I came from a former communist country where I have witnessed how the meaning of God as Creator, provider, helper in need has changed to a cuss word, all with a "little coaching". I'm sure you can work out how that happened, right?

Your experience with a totalitarian regime is not representative of my addressing grade school students.

The same way as today the word 'science' has become to mean "Evolution" and "Big-Bang",

Science today means a systematic method to learn about the environment. That has not changed.

What poorly informed or misinformed people think of science or how they define science is immaterial. The public does not do the work – but enjoys the benefits (including these computers and modern medicine) while often complaining about areas of science that contradict their pet religious beliefs.

all by a teeny-tiny 'coaching' suggestions like saying "60 million years ago, .. dinosaurs, .. your ancestor the apes" etc. that children will associate with evolution. All has come about by that "little coaching", agreed?

Evolution is "genetic change through generations". That occurs every time a "super bug" becomes antibiotic resistant.

A favorite question I use is to ask them to decide what "up" and "down" mean. They may struggle a bit but come close to a correct answer – which is that down means toward the center of the Earth and up means the opposite.

Doesn't seem you had much influence on the kids Z, people including scientists still refer to North as Up.

Is this to say that "up" is NOT "away from the center of the Earth" – and using a colloquialism to "prove" your point?

But yes Z, I understand what you mean.

Then why the pointless detour / distraction?

If you do understand that the Earth is spherical, why the extended discussion?

We extend that concept to decide that up and down have no meaning in free space / the universe.

I wonder when Astronauts are in danger in space, something like a fire, or meteor hit, in those critical last moments if they still think of Heaven as being "Up there" and hell as being "down there"?
Besides, does 'above' still mean up and 'below' still mean down in space? Because in Star Wars I heard the 'Red Leader' tell Mr. Solo: "Solo, you have a tie Fighter right above you!" So not to be sarcastic or anything, I still believe 'up' and 'down' has the same meaning even in space!? But then I'm not a teacher, right?

Perhaps it would be prudent to consult sources other than Star Wars.

(meaning when I walk let's say from South to North, or from East to West etc.) am I walking up-hill on the round Earth, .. or am I always standing on a flat surface at the very tip of the Globe?

Compass directions are human concepts useful in navigation but are not an actual feature or characteristic of the Earth. There are no grid lines marked on the Earth and no marked equator. Though they may be depicted on globes or maps, they are only imaginary lines.

Thank you sir, I will try to remember that and stop looking for them while driving cross country. (feel like a fool now that you mention it, what was I thinking?)

When I was in the Army we would occasionally show a new recruit the grid lines on a map, tell him we should be near that point, and send him out looking for one.

Since the spheroidal Earth (actually an oblate spheroid or ellipsoid of revolution) is in rotational motion, a hypothetical (not physical) axis can be proposed. The points at which that hypothetical axis intersects the Earth surface are assigned the name poles and one is arbitrarily called "north" and the other "south" (in the English language). Neither of those terms has any meaning away from the Earth.

Viewed from distant space, the Earth is simply a spinning ball.

Yes sir. So if an Astronaut was to report from space to another astronaut that he just seen a nuclear bomb go off at the top of the North Pole, no one would understand him? "Wha, .. top, ... North, .. what the hell you talking about man, all I see is a spinning ball!?"

I trust that astronauts are familiar with navigation (especially those who are pilots) and would have no difficulty communicating the location of an atomic explosion that occurred on Earth.

Personal Moderator question Z, could we consider your responses as 'condescending'? Just asking?

Ask another moderator via PM.

When I walk any direction, am I not always on a flat surface (tip of the Globe)?

A sphere (or spheroid) has no "tip" and no flat surfaces (except perhaps very locally / limited areas) just as a beach ball has no tip and a ball bearing has no flat surfaces (beyond microscopic level).

Most people have noticed that the Earth contains non-flat surfaces (hills, mountains, valleys, volcanic cones, etc). Although the Earth may seem quite rugged in places to us, it is smoother in scale than a piece of paper. Although the Earth is "bulged" at the equator it is closer to true spherical than most ball bearings (.003% tolerance).

Disclosure: I taught these topics in freshman university geology classes fifty years ago.

I understand sir. So a 26,600 feet high mountain sticking out of the earth can be considered "smoother then paper" in comparison, but walking on the earth like through the desert, or driving through Kansas could not be considered flat?

Driving in Kansas could be considered flat – unless one takes into account the curvature of the Earth surface.

Hey, you're the teacher, and I'm on probation, so what can I say but; yes sir!

In these debates there is no rank, status, or seniority. Present your ideas for readers to consider. Those on probation would be well advised to observe Forum Rules and Guidelines.

So we are always standing, walking on a flat Earth right?

Wrong.

yes sir. I was just thinking stupid, considering that the earth curves .0012626 of an inch per feet, and since our feet is the only thing touching the ground, it may seem flat!? Unless you can feel the .001 inch difference (that's 1/4 of the diameter of our hair difference) from the back to the front of your feet? I'd say that's pretty darn flat, .. but that would be delusional right?

Is this an attempt to prove that the Earth is flat?

See, scientific observation tells us that for anyone traveling on the earth, the earth is flat at all times (except when a hill/mountain shows up in our path).

Scientific observation tells no such thing.

Yes sir, .. I must have heard them refer "We need a nice big flat surface for this experiment, like the California Salt Flats" to something else then, not for a flat surface on earth obviously, cause that would be delusional.

Did you ask "them" if the Earth surface is curved as part of a spherical body?

The illusion of flatness is not in accord with the reality of a spherical surface.

Again you are correct, so reading in a science journal about; "driving endlessly through the hot, dry flat desert" should be restated: "driving through the hot, dry, spherical desert" correct?
When will we ever learn? 'The sun comes up, the sun goes down, .. were driving up, and others driving down for vacation, .. living in the flatlands with not even a hill around' etc. people just don't learn I guess?

Colloquialisms must be misleading to those who do not understand.

Thanks for that educational debate.

Thank you for providing readers with a theistic point of view.