Is an acorn an oak tree?

[Blastcat]

"If an acorn is an oak tree organism, an acorn is therefore an oak tree."

Post 471: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:31 pm Re: Does he have a valid point?

Question for debate:
Is the above quote valid reasoning, and why?

[jgh7]

[Replying to DanieltheDragon]

Haha, that makes sense then. I guess I do view an acorn as an oak tree and if I could I would change my vote to yes.

[rikuoamero]

"If an acorn is an oak tree organism, an acorn is therefore an oak tree."

Post 471: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:31 pm Re: Does he have a valid point?

Question for debate:
Is the above quote valid reasoning, and why?

Although the acorn has the potential to become an oak tree, in its current state (as an acorn) it is not an oak tree.

The acorn is literally different than an oak because it must transform states of being to become a tree. A tiny new oak shoot is a transformation of the acorn, and could be called an oak tree as it need only have nutrients and time to grow.

Using the logic of acorn = oak tree, one could say a rock = magma, or ice = water. There is a reason we have different names and labels for the different forms - so as to differentiate between them. Rock has different properties than magma, so we don't call a rock magma (in that magma is molten rock at very high temperatures) and ice is a solid, whereas water is a liquid.

[Hamsaka]

"If an acorn is an oak tree organism, an acorn is therefore an oak tree."

Post 471: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:31 pm Re: Does he have a valid point?

Question for debate:
Is the above quote valid reasoning, and why?

Although the acorn has the potential to become an oak tree, in its current state (as an acorn) it is not an oak tree.

The acorn is literally different than an oak because it must transform states of being to become a tree. A tiny new oak shoot is a transformation of the acorn, and could be called an oak tree as it need only have nutrients and time to grow.

Using the logic of acorn = oak tree, one could say a rock = magma, or ice = water. There is a reason we have different names and labels for the different forms - so as to differentiate between them. Rock has different properties than magma, so we don't call a rock magma (in that magma is molten rock at very high temperatures) and ice is a solid, whereas water is a liquid.

Eeeexactly. Your example illustrates how a statement becomes illogical if the premises are false. We do depend on particular labels for the different forms or meaning gets too ambiguous, leading to mistakes/misapplications.

[Paprika]

I suppose you're asking if it's of a more mature state? No it isn't.

You suppose wrong.
I'm not asking if it's of a more mature state.
Can you try to answer my real question?

Is an acorn a tree?
Simple yes or no will suffice.

A tree is a more mature state, so no.

[Blastcat]

I suppose you're asking if it's of a more mature state? No it isn't.

You suppose wrong.
I'm not asking if it's of a more mature state.
Can you try to answer my real question?

Is an acorn a tree?
Simple yes or no will suffice. [/quote]

A tree is a more mature state, so no.

I am not asking if an acorn is less or more mature than a tree. I am asking if an acorn is the same thing as a tree.

Try again.

IS an acorn the same thing as a tree?
Is an acorn identical to a tree?
Does an acorn equal a tree?

[bluethread]

The essence of both is pine, the nut and the tree are categories related to that essence.

The PINE ESSENCE.. Yes, the pine essence and the pine tree and the pine cone and the pine board and the pine needle are RELATED to the pine. My TOENAIL is related to my grandma and my shoe and all of my socks.

But is an acorn a tree... ?

Do people go right to HELL for answering this question?

No, but some people can get rather irritated when others will not give them the answer they want.

An acorn is not a tree. A seed is not a plant. An egg is not an adult.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 1 by Blastcat]

To be fair, an oak tree is a particular stage in life for an oak. A better question to ask is, is an acorn a younger version of an oak tree.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 36 by bluethread]

The essence of both is pine, the nut and the tree are categories related to that essence.

The PINE ESSENCE.. Yes, the pine essence and the pine tree and the pine cone and the pine board and the pine needle are RELATED to the pine. My TOENAIL is related to my grandma and my shoe and all of my socks.

But is an acorn a tree... ?

Do people go right to HELL for answering this question?

No, but some people can get rather irritated when others will not give them the answer they want.

An acorn is not a tree. A seed is not a plant. An egg is not an adult.

We don't have to get irritated, we can just keep trying to have people to answer the question unambiguously.

Your answer above is ambiguous. That's why I keep trying to get a clear, unambiguous answer. I am not going to pretend to understand an answer that I can't answer. I will accept a yes or a no kind of an answer. I just want to know where people weigh in on the lofty controversy about acorns being trees. But ambiguous answers are not useful, as I do NOT know if they mean yes or no ... I have to wonder why people don't want or can't seem to answer the rather simple question.

Allow me to explain how I get get two meanings from your ambiguous and equivocal answer:

Your set doesn't follow.

IF an acorn is not a tree, and a seed is not a plant, then the egg is not a bird. ( you wrote "adult").

Tree is to plant as to bird here.. but you use the word "adult", instead of "bird" or "chicken". And so, I have to wonder why you chose that word. The question doesn't REFER to adulthood as compared to childhood. The question is about if an acorn is a different thing from an tree.

Acorn is to tree as seed is to plant as egg is to bird, NOT "adult".

Unless you are saying that an acorn is a tree that is not an adult tree.
Unless you say that a seed is just a young plant.
And that an egg is just a young bird.

So, again, you are close to being clear.

Is an acorn IDENTICAL to a tree?
When we use the word "acorn", is the word synonymous to the word "tree"?

I can't tell what your opinion is because I seem to get two answers. No, on one hand, and then yes on the other. So, which one is it? Yes or not?

Because if your position is Yes AND No, then... I can't get any meaning from that. If we were to ask someone "is it raining outside?", and the answer we get is "Yes and no" that would not be a very useful answer at all. We couldn't tell from that answer if we should bring an umbrella or not. That's the problem with ambiguous answers. They are perfectly useless, and dont really ANSWER the question in a meaningful way. I would even say that if answered that way deliberately, that it would imply a deception by way of pretending to answer the question, when really, not actually doing so.

Done intentionally, the ambiguous answer would be an act of avoidance at best, and deception at worst.

On the ONE hand, you say that an acorn isn't a tree, and then on the other hand, in the very next sentence, you imply that an acorn is NOT a (adult) tree. But we have to be very careful here, because what might not be an adult tree might be a YOUNG tree, and hence A TREE.

So, you say that an acorn is not a tree, and then you imply that it is a tree.
When I ask you yes OR no, you reply with an answer that can be interpreted as yes AND no.

This is highly ambiguous to say the least.

Please try to give a clear answer to the yes OR no question. So, that we can tell if your position is actually yes, or if it is actually no, with no possible room for ambiguity.

Please try again.
Your answer was ambiguous and equivocal.

Do people practice being politicians with this question?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 37 by Bust Nak]

To be fair, an oak tree is a particular stage in life for an oak. A better question to ask is, is an acorn a younger version of an oak tree.

To be fair, how about we answer the question of the OP, and THEN move on to your "better" question, possibly, in another thread?

And it would be a bit helpful when we are debating what a "better" question might be if, once we have the answer the the actual question on the OP, we could examine the criteria we should use to compose a "better" question.

I love to learn, but how about one thing at a time, thanks.

The question here is is an acorn a tree?

If you have a question for another thread, please create the new thread.
I seem to be dealing with the incapacity for folks to give a straight answer to THIS thread.

Did you answer yes or no to the questions?
Is an acorn a tree, was the quote that I provided logical and why?

I get IRRELEVANT answers to those questions.

Thank you.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 39 by Blastcat]

I did answer the question of the OP. Voted no.