Kill an Innocent to Atone For the Wicked

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jgh7

Kill an Innocent to Atone For the Wicked

Post #1

Post by jgh7 »

Jesus was a blameless sinless man according to the NT. How does the killing of the innocent atone for the sins of the wicked? Am I correct in saying that if Jesus had not been killed and resurrected, then God would not be in a position to forgive us of our sins?

In the real world, it is completely nonsensical to kill the innocent to atone for the wicked. On the contrary, it is probably one of the worst injustices that could occur. Where is the logic and sense in God having the most innocent of innocents killed so that He can forgive us?

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Re: Kill an Innocent to Atone For the Wicked

Post #31

Post by polonius »

jgh7 wrote: Jesus was a blameless sinless man according to the NT. How does the killing of the innocent atone for the sins of the wicked? Am I correct in saying that if Jesus had not been killed and resurrected, then God would not be in a position to forgive us of our sins?

In the real world, it is completely nonsensical to kill the innocent to atone for the wicked. On the contrary, it is probably one of the worst injustices that could occur. Where is the logic and sense in God having the most innocent of innocents killed so that He can forgive us?
RESPONSE: Jesus was crucified by the Romans for insurrection by claiming to be the Messiah who was as described by scripture as the king of the Jews.

His shameful death was disheartening to his followers. In the early 50's, Paul claimed that the real reason for Jesus' death was to atone for the sins of man. (Human sacrifice is condemned by scripture). However, Paul's story was more palatable than an execution for insurrection, so it caught on among Jesus' followers.And is claimed even to this day.

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Re: Kill an Innocent to Atone For the Wicked

Post #32

Post by ttruscott »

marco wrote:
hoghead1 wrote: [Replying to post 21 by Elijah John]

The idea is that we allowed him to win us all over to his side. Hence, he has the right to govern us.
So much theory is washed into this little pronoun, "we." Humanity does not act as a unit though one may erroneously judge it to do so.
The 'we' could refer to all those who individually chose to sin as one group called sinners, hmmmm?
Atonement requires human consensus in sin; we don't have that.
could you explain this "consensus in sin"? What are we agreeing upon?
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Kill an Innocent to Atone For the Wicked

Post #33

Post by marco »

ttruscott wrote:
Could you explain this "consensus in sin"? What are we agreeing upon?
If Christ was atoning not simply for Adam's mistake but for the sins of mankind, then we are all in a sinful pact, as it were, with Adam. There are many people who are horrendously bad and others who are admirably good. There is no mass sinfulness and no requirement to atone for anything. We are the clay products of our maker and we do what we were designed to do.

Christ's death sentence for blasphemy is possibly a personal misfortune. There is no logical way his short existence and death relate to, say, the sins of Genghis Khan.

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Post #34

Post by Bust Nak »

Blastcat wrote: Yeah we got that part.

We got that part too.. Jesus was "volunteered".
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Re: Kill an Innocent to Atone For the Wicked

Post #35

Post by ttruscott »

marco wrote:
ttruscott wrote:
Could you explain this "consensus in sin"? What are we agreeing upon?
If Christ was atoning not simply for Adam's mistake but for the sins of mankind, then we are all in a sinful pact, as it were, with Adam. There are many people who are horrendously bad and others who are admirably good. There is no mass sinfulness and no requirement to atone for anything.
Ahhh, yes. I too argue against our being created as sinners by making us human in Adam because GOD cannot create evil.
We are the clay products of our maker and we do what we were designed to do.
IF indeed we were created as humans in Adam, I agree. But since that's impossible according to WHO HE IS, then a new look was called for that kept GOD holy and yet us sinful and it was found in our pre-conception sins by our free will in Sheol. Then I was quite surprised at how many hints there were in the Bible which due to the bias toward our being created on earth have been ignored.
Christ's death sentence for blasphemy is possibly a personal misfortune. There is no logical way his short existence and death relate to, say, the sins of Genghis Khan.
Well, uuumm, there is one possible way and that is if He really was divine and everyone who became a sinner rejected Him in one way or another before they were born as human...
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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