Kill an Innocent to Atone For the Wicked

[jgh7]

Jesus was a blameless sinless man according to the NT. How does the killing of the innocent atone for the sins of the wicked? Am I correct in saying that if Jesus had not been killed and resurrected, then God would not be in a position to forgive us of our sins?

In the real world, it is completely nonsensical to kill the innocent to atone for the wicked. On the contrary, it is probably one of the worst injustices that could occur. Where is the logic and sense in God having the most innocent of innocents killed so that He can forgive us?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 1 by jgh7]

Why does an all powerful being that can create universes need to kill in order to forgive someone for behaving in the manner in which he created them? I think anyone of us here can simply forgive someone of slights by just being empathetic. Why does this God need a human sacrifice to forgive? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever!

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 1 by jgh7]

Why does an all powerful being that can create universes need to kill in order to forgive someone for behaving in the manner in which he created them? I think anyone of us here can simply forgive someone of slights by just being empathetic. Why does this God need a human sacrifice to forgive? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever!

God created Adam and Eve and the serpent directly with His own hands. And, being fully omniscient, knew exactly what He was doing, and how His creations would turn out. He brought them together in the garden having full foreknowledge of what would occur. When it did he condemned both sides in perpetuity, so that their offspring would also bear the consequences of this great sin that God had contrived right from the beginning. But to give humankind an eventual chance at redemption, blood had to be shed. And the nature of the sin that God had contrived to occur from the very moment that Adam and Eve and the serpent were created was so great that ordinary blood would not be sufficient. It required holy blood. Why? God's plan... God's rules.

So God contrived in His plan that He should be born as a human, allowing Himself to suffer and die, shedding His own Holy blood in the process and in doing so offering humankind a chance at salvation. But only for those who choose to believe on faith that this actually occurred and was God's purpose all along. Apparently unquestioning gullibility is a virtuous quality to God.

So why couldn't God, being omnipotent, simply forgive humankind without all of the drama if He wanted to offer eternal salvation? Because in this view of God, God is a dramatically manipulative psychotic sadist who treats his creations as so many ants, alternately tormenting them and providing for them.

Oddly enough however, God, who use to be very hands on with His smiting and harsh punishments, has been amazingly quiescent for many many centuries now. No actual evidence of His existence is to be seen at all anymore. It's almost as though He never actually existed to begin with. Which is just as well, because that God, the Judaeo/Christian/Muslim God, use to be quite an ogre. In modern times the God who acts exactly like a God who never existed to begin with seems fully content to allow humans to undergo torments of their own devising.

[ttruscott]

Where is the logic and sense in God having the most innocent of innocents killed so that He can forgive us?

You miss the mark - GOD did not kill Christ. HE offered His life as a sacrifice for us. Why this is the best way to achieve our repatriation to the Father, I do not know but He was a volunteer.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Where is the logic and sense in God having the most innocent of innocents killed so that He can forgive us?

You miss the mark - GOD did not kill Christ. HE offered His life as a sacrifice for us. Why this is the best way to achieve our repatriation to the Father, I do not know but He was a volunteer.

Was there ever even the slightest possibility that Jesus would have opted out of this plan, in your opinion? And if the answer is no, if there was really never such a possibility on the table, in what way was Jesus ever functioning as a volunteer?

[DanieltheDragon]

Where is the logic and sense in God having the most innocent of innocents killed so that He can forgive us?

You miss the mark - GOD did not kill Christ. HE offered His life as a sacrifice for us. Why this is the best way to achieve our repatriation to the Father, I do not know but He was a volunteer.

Why did God neeeeed Christ to volunteer as a sacrifice if he can create universes life etc. he can't forgive without blood sacrifice? Seems fishy of you ask me....

[Wootah]

Jesus was a blameless sinless man according to the NT. How does the killing of the innocent atone for the sins of the wicked? Am I correct in saying that if Jesus had not been killed and resurrected, then God would not be in a position to forgive us of our sins?

In the real world, it is completely nonsensical to kill the innocent to atone for the wicked. On the contrary, it is probably one of the worst injustices that could occur. Where is the logic and sense in God having the most innocent of innocents killed so that He can forgive us?

Killing Jesus was sinful. Jesus sacrificing himself was however necessary.

In the real world when someone runs into a burning building and rescues someone else but dies in the attempt we call them heroes.

View it that way because that is closer to how Christians view it.

No Christian views it as killing innocents to save the wicked.

[Zzyzx]

.

In the real world when someone runs into a burning building and rescues someone else but dies in the attempt we call them heroes.

If someone standing by could put out the fire (with an aerial tanker or a click of their fingers or whatever) with no one being harmed, and did not do so, what would we think of that person?

No Christian views it as killing innocents to save the wicked.

In many instances it is useful to consider the observations of disconnected parities -- that may provide insight different from those directly involved.

[DanieltheDragon]

Jesus was a blameless sinless man according to the NT. How does the killing of the innocent atone for the sins of the wicked? Am I correct in saying that if Jesus had not been killed and resurrected, then God would not be in a position to forgive us of our sins?

In the real world, it is completely nonsensical to kill the innocent to atone for the wicked. On the contrary, it is probably one of the worst injustices that could occur. Where is the logic and sense in God having the most innocent of innocents killed so that He can forgive us?

Killing Jesus was sinful. Jesus sacrificing himself was however necessary.

In the real world when someone runs into a burning building and rescues someone else but dies in the attempt we call them heroes.

View it that way because that is closer to how Christians view it.

No Christian views it as killing innocents to save the wicked.

Slave owners view slavery as good, this doesn't make slavery good. How Christians spin the narrative to make themselves more comfortable with their beliefs doesn't change what the story says.

1. God can't forgive without the blood sacrifice of an innocent
2. God creates an innocent to sacrifice
3. The creation is sacrificed
4. The wicked are forgiven

[rikuoamero]

Jesus was a blameless sinless man according to the NT. How does the killing of the innocent atone for the sins of the wicked? Am I correct in saying that if Jesus had not been killed and resurrected, then God would not be in a position to forgive us of our sins?

In the real world, it is completely nonsensical to kill the innocent to atone for the wicked. On the contrary, it is probably one of the worst injustices that could occur. Where is the logic and sense in God having the most innocent of innocents killed so that He can forgive us?

Killing Jesus was sinful. Jesus sacrificing himself was however necessary.

In the real world when someone runs into a burning building and rescues someone else but dies in the attempt we call them heroes.

View it that way because that is closer to how Christians view it.

No Christian views it as killing innocents to save the wicked.

Consider for a moment WHY we call that person who dies rescuing someone a 'hero'. I offer my reason; that person has just given up that which is irreplaceable, something they can never have back (their life) so someone else can live.
What happens in the Christian story? Oh right...Jesus comes back to life after a three day nap and becomes King of the universe.

Why is sacrificing Jesus necessary? In other threads, I've been told God is against human sacrifice. Yet here he REQUIRES it? Who or what demands of God 'Thou need a human sacrifice to forgive'?