Paul changed Jesus' message.

[dio9]

The difference between Jesus message and Paul's is simply the dominion under God now or later.Paul taught God's dominion would come when Jesus returned. Until then Paul gathered people to wait for it. Paul's message was not to change the world but to endure the world . Jesus 'was to change the way things are done in this world. The difference between change and endurance are clear.

That said the original disciples of Jesus were about actually creating an independent Judea. Remember they were zealots who believed in the messianic prophecies of Israel. even Jesus' beloved disciples John and James asked Jesus to sit at his right hand in the kingdom. They believed until the end that meant the establishment of a real land liberated and independent under God not Caesar.

This focus didn't fade away until 10 or 20 years later and the destruction of the Temple. When Paul's gentile ministry led to and the getilization of the Church. Not thought of as a church by James John and Peter, it changed focus from Jewish messiah ism to Christian forgiveness endure sacrifice and waiting for Christ's return.

The point this rambling revelation is Jesus and his disciples believed in changing the status quo from a Provence in the Roman empire to an independent state under God not Caesar. Paul did not hold this independence belief, he was content to remain part of the Empire , with his gentile ministry he could do nothing else and changed the focus of Jesus' kingdom message.

please comment agree or disagree.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 25 by JehovahsWitness]

The point here is from the time of the prophets , Israel was led to believe, the Messianic expectation was restoration of the Davidic monarchy.

No the point it getting an answer to my request below.

Jesus ... believed in changing the status quo from a Provence in the Roman empire to an independent state under God not Caesar.

I was seeking some specific biblical references for the above.

Should I hold out for a post that even remotely responsds to what I asked or give up waiting entirely?

JW

[JP Cusick]

it wasn't the propel who rejected Jesus it was the Priests Herodians and Sadducees. Remember it was Herod who killed John. There was politics and money involved in Jesus' execution. Jesus was a challenge to the Judeo-Roman establishment . If you know your history the founder of the kingdom , Herod the great , was a Roman surrogate king. The Herod s were illegitimate striving for legitimacy. John and later Jesus were a challenge to their rule.

I will try again to agree with you on this.

So Paul came later, as Jesus was already dead (or gone) and the 12 Apostles were scattered and the game had changed.

Paul preached the after-message.




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Jesus preached the Father, (God), and Paul preached Jesus.

This is a brilliant comment.

It is simple and correct, and right to the point.

Cheers.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 25 by JehovahsWitness]

The point here is from the time of the prophets , Israel was led to believe, the Messianic expectation was restoration of the Davidic monarchy.

No the point it getting an answer to my request below.

Jesus ... believed in changing the status quo from a Provence in the Roman empire to an independent state under God not Caesar.

I was seeking some specific biblical references for the above.

Should I hold out for a post that even remotely responsds to what I asked or give up waiting entirely?

JW

read the prophets again they are all about the restoration of a righteous kingdom on earth under God .
A peaceful kingdom not of this world is the creation of Christians, which is reasonable after all the lord was crucified.

[paarsurrey1]

Paul changed Jesus' message

Jesus like Moses believed in ONENESS of God:

"the Lord our God is one Lord". (Deuteronomy 6:4)

"And Jesus answered him. The first of all the commandments is, Hear O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. This is the first commandment". (Mark 12:29-30)

Paul, his associates and Church carved mythical Trinity.

Isn't it a change that Paul made in Moses' and Jesus' message, please?
Regards

Just to add:
Paul took a 100% different turn to the basic truthful teachings of Jesus:

"Messiah himself said, O children of Israel, worship Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord. "
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 5&verse=73

This was the core message of Jesus if it is changed then the whole mission of Jesus is changed. Right, please?

Regards