Why no straight answers?

[Zzyzx]

.
After eight years debating here I have YET to encounter a defender of fundamentalism / literalism / traditionalism (or the Bible in general) who will openly, accurately, honestly answer fundamental questions about Christian beliefs – including the following (with truthful answers in bold font)

What verifiable evidence exists (beyond Bible tales and claims, opinions, testimonials and speculation) to substantiate that:

Jesus was anything more than human? None

Humans possess a soul? None

An afterlife exists? None

Miracles described in Bible tales actually occurred? None

Any of the claimed events such as floods, earthquakes, darkening sky, star stopping, Earth ceasing rotation, etc occurred as described? None

God intercedes in human affairs or life events? None

Bible writers were actually inspired by God? None



Why no answers? Could it be refusal to admit that in the absence of verifiable information, accepting the basic beliefs of Christianity must be based on "Take my (or his) word for it" and that doing so is not a rational basis for making decisions on matters of importance?

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 320 by Realworldjack]

As I have stated I another post, "the Jews have been, one of the most, if not the most persecuted race on the face of the Earth. There have been those who have attempted to wipe this race from the face of the Earth, and there are still those today who would love to see them annihilated! In spite of all of this, the Israelites, the people the Bible records as God's chosen are still alive, and well". Now, the question is, can this been shown to be true? Let's continue on.

While I myself am no friend of genocide, you'll have to understand that this particular claim doesn't get really russle my jimmys. Need I remind you what's in the OT, but story after story of these same Jews going out and slaughtering tribe after tribe?[/quote]

[fstopper]

[quote="
The point is that there is no such thing as authentic (or true or real) Christianity but instead tens of thousands of different OPINIONS by groups or individuals – made up in the mind from scriptures that cannot be shown / known to be anything more than imagination.

True Christianity is born again Christianity as described in scripture.Salvation only comes when someone makes a conscious decision to follow Christ.Most of the differences between non Catholic denominations are very minor although some get blown out of proportion.

[Zzyzx]

.

True Christianity is born again Christianity as described in scripture.

So say the "Born Again Christians" -- other Christians disagree.

Salvation only comes when someone makes a conscious decision to follow Christ.

"Salvation" has not been shown to be anything more than overworked human imagination and story telling.

Most of the differences between non Catholic denominations are very minor although some get blown out of proportion.

Is this to say that there is only very minor differences between Lutherans, Jehovah Witness, Amish / Mennonite, Latter Day Saints, Southern Baptists, Church of God -- and tens of thousands of other denominations?

Surely you jest. Some of those people can't even be in the same room together.

Credibility counts.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to post 320 by Realworldjack]

As I have stated I another post, "the Jews have been, one of the most, if not the most persecuted race on the face of the Earth. There have been those who have attempted to wipe this race from the face of the Earth, and there are still those today who would love to see them annihilated! In spite of all of this, the Israelites, the people the Bible records as God's chosen are still alive, and well". Now, the question is, can this been shown to be true? Let's continue on.

While I myself am no friend of genocide, you'll have to understand that this particular claim doesn't get really russle my jimmys. Need I remind you what's in the OT, but story after story of these same Jews going out and slaughtering tribe after tribe?

[/quote]

I understand your complaint, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the point I have made. In other words, the Jews could deserve, (not saying they do) the persecution they have recieved but that is beside the point. The point was, although there have been those who have wanted, and attempted, to wipe the race the Bible calls, "His Chosen" from the face of the Earth, this race is still with us in spite of the odds against it, while the other ancient tribes are no longer with us.

[fstopper]

.

True Christianity is born again Christianity as described in scripture.

So say the "Born Again Christians" -- other Christians disagree.

Then they are calling Jesus a liar

Salvation only comes when someone makes a conscious decision to follow Christ.

"Salvation" has not been shown to be anything more than overworked human imagination and story telling.

It is a basic requirement to enter heaven

Most of the differences between non Catholic denominations are very minor although some get blown out of proportion.

Is this to say that there is only very minor differences between Lutherans, Jehovah Witness, Amish / Mennonite, Latter Day Saints, Southern Baptists, Church of God -- and tens of thousands of other denominations?

Surely you jest. Some of those people can't even be in the same room together.

Credibility counts.

That's why I say some blow it out of proportion, and some of those you mention are not Christian.

[Zzyzx]

.

True Christianity is born again Christianity as described in scripture.

So say the "Born Again Christians" -- other Christians disagree.

Then they are calling Jesus a liar

Since there is no assurance that anyone knows what Jesus may have actually said and since there is disagreement in Christendom concerning the words attributed to him, it is all a matter of opinion, preference, conjecture and "interpretation."

Not all Christians or Christian denominations agree with one another – and all claim to be RIGHT and to be TRUE or REAL Christians (while other Christians are not).

It is useful to keep in mind that there are no records of the "words of Jesus" until writings decades or generations after he died (by people who cannot be shown to have heard his words). Can any of us remember precisely and exactly, word-for-word, numerous sermons we heard thirty or fifty years ago?

Salvation only comes when someone makes a conscious decision to follow Christ.

"Salvation" has not been shown to be anything more than overworked human imagination and story telling.

It is a basic requirement to enter heaven

Correction: According to some ancient and modern promoters of one of the world's tens of thousands of religions, "salvation" for "souls" in an "afterlife" is the reward for following what preachers and religion promoters declare. However, there is no assurance than any of them are anything other than products of human imagination and wishful thinking.

Most of the differences between non Catholic denominations are very minor although some get blown out of proportion.

Is this to say that there is only very minor differences between Lutherans, Jehovah Witness, Amish / Mennonite, Latter Day Saints, Southern Baptists, Church of God -- and tens of thousands of other denominations?

Surely you jest. Some of those people can't even be in the same room together.

Credibility counts.

That's why I say some blow it out of proportion,

Kindly show readers that there are "only very minor differences" between Lutherans, Jehovah Witness, Amish / Mennonite, Latter Day Saints, Southern Baptists, Church of God -- and tens of thousands of other denominations

and some of those you mention are not Christian.

Which denominations that I mention are NOT Christian?

[KenRU]

[Replying to post 216 by KenRU]

I agree that religion (any religion) can give someone strength and fortitude. But this inner power is not solely derived from religion. It can be found in other sources: family, country, greed, lust for power etc.

That someone can be motivated by something does not speak to its accuracy, truthfulness or benevolence.

Agreed , this is not the sole source of faith for some. Some of the things you mention do not require faith . Lust , Greed .

This is not relevant to my point. Religion (as an idea) can be just as dangerous or benevolent as any other idea that motivates someone.

It is no more benevolent or sinister then patriotism or (to break my analogy) a gun.

Once again , you are talking about having faith, not growing it to make you a stronger person.

No, you are talking about faith, I'm talking about that which you are placing your faith in. Religion, imo, requires more than just faith otherwise it can be quite dangerous. It requires one to still use their own moral compass and intelligence. Otherwise it should then be called blind faith.

But religion often chides or derides this action. It practically demands blind faith.

And that is a problem.

As for growing it to make it stronger, again, growing it (I assume) means getting more affirmations that your faith is justified. And that requires, imo, circular logic and proving a pre-existing conclusion (at all costs) and that is at best just being intellectually dishonest.

Having faith is static , walking in the faith and growing through administering the residuals of faith is what builds your character.

I disagree. Helping others builds character. Experiencing life, builds character. Practicing what you preach just means you are not a hypocrite. It means you can be considered devout and true to your faith.

Building your character can be done in many ways. You're attempting to build a very specific and narrow character.

This is accomplished in many ways , the way we are speaking of is one of gaining strength and fortitude, by facing adversities that you would not normally experience, in your every day life .

No religion necessary for this argument to be true. In fact, I could quite easily argue that it is an impediment to building character.

[earendil]

[Replying to post 320 by Realworldjack]

As I have stated I another post, "the Jews have been, one of the most, if not the most persecuted race on the face of the Earth. There have been those who have attempted to wipe this race from the face of the Earth, and there are still those today who would love to see them annihilated! In spite of all of this, the Israelites, the people the Bible records as God's chosen are still alive, and well". Now, the question is, can this been shown to be true? Let's continue on.

While I myself am no friend of genocide, you'll have to understand that this particular claim doesn't get really russle my jimmys. Need I remind you what's in the OT, but story after story of these same Jews going out and slaughtering tribe after tribe?

[/quote]

These Jews are the same Jews?????

Those Jews lived 3,000 years ago. If a man commited murder would you require that his son be executed?

Is this your understanding of justice?

[earendil]

.
After eight years debating here I have YET to encounter a defender of fundamentalism / literalism / traditionalism (or the Bible in general) who will openly, accurately, honestly answer fundamental questions about Christian beliefs – including the following (with truthful answers in bold font)

What verifiable evidence exists (beyond Bible tales and claims, opinions, testimonials and speculation) to substantiate that:

Jesus was anything more than human? None

Humans possess a soul? None

An afterlife exists? None

Miracles described in Bible tales actually occurred? None

Any of the claimed events such as floods, earthquakes, darkening sky, star stopping, Earth ceasing rotation, etc occurred as described? None

God intercedes in human affairs or life events? None

Bible writers were actually inspired by God? None



Why no answers? Could it be refusal to admit that in the absence of verifiable information, accepting the basic beliefs of Christianity must be based on "Take my (or his) word for it" and that doing so is not a rational basis for making decisions on matters of importance?

I have discussed this in the past (sometimes with you). I took some time to consider the arguments and there really does exist support for the Christian viewpoint (at least in some general concepts). However, it is very difficult to give you the information that you need to get past possible bias, because it is all so involved. There is hardly room in this format to deal with all the misconceptions that block the understanding of the Christ.

I wonder though, if someone did give you evidence, would you ignore it? What would you accept as evidence? I suspect that you might have a special requirement that cannot be met in any case, but who knows?

Your question covers a lot of territory and there is no quick answer. However, I have spent the last two years collecting all my thoughts on this particular problem.
I have written it all down in the book: The Science Behind the Christ.

I think this was an important thing to do, as I have also found myself in many oral arguments about this topic and it is never possible to give my opponents all the information needed to actually support the final claim.

So now I just say.....read the book. It saves me a lot of time.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 320 by Realworldjack]

As I have stated I another post, "the Jews have been, one of the most, if not the most persecuted race on the face of the Earth. There have been those who have attempted to wipe this race from the face of the Earth, and there are still those today who would love to see them annihilated! In spite of all of this, the Israelites, the people the Bible records as God's chosen are still alive, and well". Now, the question is, can this been shown to be true? Let's continue on.

While I myself am no friend of genocide, you'll have to understand that this particular claim doesn't get really russle my jimmys. Need I remind you what's in the OT, but story after story of these same Jews going out and slaughtering tribe after tribe?

These Jews are the same Jews?????

Those Jews lived 3,000 years ago. If a man commited murder would you require that his son be executed?

Isaiah 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

Par for the course if you believe in the Christian god.
(It's also not par for the course for this god, but this thread is not about Biblical contradictions).