books of the bible

hanes · Post by **hanes** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:34 am

why did christianity leave some books out of the bible? and on that who picks the books that get to be in the bible?

i just find it rather hypocritical to put some books in and some books out. it seems like they just put the books that made the religion sound all good.

The Gospel of Mary: This Gnostic Text reveals that Mary Magdalene may
have been an apostle, perhaps even a leading apostle, not a prostitute.
While some texts in the Bible seem to deny women a voice in the
Christian community, this texts helps spark the debate about the role
of women in the church.

i was just wondering why books like this werent added? a religion based on the bible should have all the points not just the ones that are fitting.

Lotan · Post by **Lotan** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:58 am

trencaclosas wrote:Er... I'm not sure about what you mean... I quoted his own words...

What I mean is that Irenaeus is hardly someone whose words I would take at face value, and that his little speech about the "four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds" and whatnot is likely to be an invention to justify his choice of the four canonical gospels. He may have had other motives, not least of which would be promoting his own personal view of christian orthodoxy.

trencacloscas · Post by **trencacloscas** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:16 pm

Oh, I see. But we only may suppose. Anyway, Christian posterity took his motives of the "4" pretty literally, didn't it?

Lotan · Post by **Lotan** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:26 pm

trencaclosas wrote:Anyway, Christian posterity took his motives of the "4" pretty literally, didn't it?

No surprise there.

Iasion · Post by **Iasion** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:17 pm

Greetings,

Thanks for your comments

trencacloscas wrote:Hi, Iasion, and welcome
Thanks for the useful link, though I kinda agree with Cathar here, it is incorrect to say that the Council of Nicaea sanctioned the canon, but given the influence of Constantine we would probably be splitting hairs indeed if we underestimate his role in determining the books. Constantine practically set Christianity out when he commissioned Eusebius, the notorious crook, to arrange a Bible for him.

Well,
of course I agree Constantine had a huge influence on Christian beliefs - as I have said several times.

But, at best - he had a SMALL, INDIRECT role in the formation of the canon.

Sure,
he later commissioned Eusebius to create the famous 50 bibles - but those bibles are NOT the same as ours - showing the influence of this collection was a minor part of the process.

All I wanted to do was point out that the oft-repeated claim that :

* Constantine and Nicea chose the books of the bible.

is FALSE.

Iasion

trencacloscas · Post by **trencacloscas** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:22 am

But, at best - he had a SMALL, INDIRECT role in the formation of the canon.

Sure,
he later commissioned Eusebius to create the famous 50 bibles - but those bibles are NOT the same as ours - showing the influence of this collection was a minor part of the process.

Hmmm... we don't actually have copies of those Bibles, so we cannot measure the influence. It had to be important for the late 4th century Councils.

Iasion · Post by **Iasion** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:59 am

Greetings,

trencacloscas wrote:Hmmm... we don't actually have copies of those Bibles, so we cannot measure the influence. It had to be important for the late 4th century Councils.

Well,
we MIGHT

Vaticanus (B/03) or Sinaiticus (Aleph/01)
may be a Constantine bible.

Iasion

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:51 pm

One thing we do know is that the cannon has always been in dispute.
As I was saying Constantine gave power to and ordered the Christians to get their act together. Much of what was written was often dealing with disputes the heretics were the ones that usually lost but the sides often changed.
The site you provided in another thread is a good reference to some of the best scholarship out there. There were many books or writing that were used by the early writers that are lost or now considered heresy or just didn't make the cannon(s)for what ever reasoning. Many of these writings were in use and dispute long before Constantine and well after Paul's time for what ever Paul's writings are worth including the forgeries and later church letters.
The time from Jesus to the time when these books were being mentioned or used a good 100 to 150 years are one of the most silent and less documented times, from 150 - 300 it isn't much better After that it seems one of the most destructive times for ideas that didn't fit.
But it is fascinating and would take to life times to scratch the surface. Recent discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi texts have shead a lot of light on the subject and I am sure it has only started.
One thing I do know is they didn't drop out of the sky they were collected among many over years of writing much later then is usually suggested. And there is a lot of problems with there versions and editing.
I am enjoying your posts. It is an interesting subject(s) and should be explored by both believers and the skeptical.