Babysitting question

[atheist buddy]

Imagine you HAD TO leave your child with a babysitter. You HAD TO.

You only had two options.

Either you leave your child with Person A or with Person B

Person A is a member of the American Skeptic's Society and only carries out actions that he believes are rational and just on the basis of rational thought. That's all you know about the person.

Person B is a fundamentalist Christian who follows the edicts of the Bible to the letter and believes that God's law trumps man's law. That's all you know about the person.


Question for debate: Who do you leave your child with?


My answer: With the skeptic. This way there at least is a chance that he will not kill my child for misbehaving.

[Peds nurse]

First, let us look at who the Old Testament laws were for. They were written for God's people, the Israelites, to set them apart from all others. As God's chosen people, these laws were set so that it would go well for them in the land that God had given them. Through the obedience of these laws, the people's hearts were faithful to the one who redeemed them from their bondage in Egypt.

Let's get this straight. Are you saying that for the Israelites these laws were... good? I know that you don't think we should follow Mosaic Law, but are you saying that it's good that the Israelites did follow it?

It certainly benefited them to follow God. Do I understand all the laws, and the reasons for them? No, I can't say that I do, but what I do know is the love that God had for His people, and that is enough for me.

Are you saying that at the time it was moral to kill gay people, kill witches, own slaves, force women to marry their rapist, etc?

At the time, they had slaves. Slavery is part of history, it matters very little that I wouldn't have a slave now. You will have to provide scripture for killing witches, and gay people. Men had to marry those women that they violated. In that day, it was a huge deal to not be a virgin, so the responsible thing to do, was to wed her.

Are you going to stand here and do ANYTHING other than agree that these laws are evil, were evil, and will always be evil?

I disagree that they were evil, because God is not evil. I am not sure what else you would have me do.

We are not Israelites. Christ died on the cross to redeem Jews and Gentiles alike. The death and resurrection of Christ, put us all on the same playing field. We are saved not by the law, but apart from it. Romans 4: Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

I still don't understand how we can live apart from the law. Does it mean that we're allowed to commit murder now? That we're allowed to let gay people live now? I don't undersand.

Remember Jesus with the adulterous woman? Let ye who have not sinned cast the first stone. We all fall short of being perfect with our actions. Of course we cannot commit murder, but love and forgiveness come first. Why focus on homosexuality? What about adultery, child abuse, emotional abuse, stealing, cheating, lying, and being selfish? These acts are damaging, and yet little is said about them.

The 10 commandments are good to follow, and are not obsolete as they are referenced in the new Testament.

The law whereby unruly children must be killed is also referenced in the new testament. Jesus chides the clergy who have come to question him, for not obeying that law.

Look, the Bible is confusing and contradictory. You can quote selectively and get it to support almost anything.

You can find quotes that support the view that the entirety of Mosaic MORAL law is valid and should be followed by all, and you can find quotes that support the view that the entirety of Mosaic MORAL Law can be tossed.

What you CANNOT do without completely abnegating any attachement to consistency and logic, is to attempt to say that "shou shalt not kill" should stay, but "thou shalt not steal" has to go, or that "Thou shalt not bear false witness" should stay, but "kill all gay people" should go. These MORAL laws are all within the same few pages. Mostly exodus 20, 21 and 22.

The two you quoted are a part of the 10 commandments, which all fall into the category of loving God and loving others.

Do you have the courage to admit that the commandment to kill gay people was wrong when it was written, it's wrong now, and it will always be wrong? Can you admit that God made a mistake in writing that Law?

you are going to have to show me that scripture.

[KenRU]

Imagine you HAD TO leave your child with a babysitter. You HAD TO.

You only had two options.

Either you leave your child with Person A or with Person B

Person A is a member of the American Skeptic's Society and only carries out actions that he believes are rational and just on the basis of rational thought. That's all you know about the person.

Person B is a fundamentalist Christian who follows the edicts of the Bible to the letter and believes that God's law trumps man's law. That's all you know about the person.


Question for debate: Who do you leave your child with?


My answer: With the skeptic. This way there at least is a chance that he will not kill my child for misbehaving.

No question: Person A

Atheist Buddy makes some really salient points (over the last couple of posts) that I would love to see adequately addressed by Christians/theists.

Was killing homosexuals evil back then? Is it wrong now? Why? What is the difference?

"Was it EVER morally good to follow the New Testament commandments about the utter and complete subjugation and intrinsic inferiority of women? Was it ever anything other than evil to treat a woman as anything less than equal to man?"

There were plenty of others, and I was eagerly awaiting a response.

Are there logically consistant responses to her questions other than acknoledging that the god of the OT was abomniable?

-all the best

[KenRU]

Do you have the courage to admit that the commandment to kill gay people was wrong when it was written, it's wrong now, and it will always be wrong? Can you admit that God made a mistake in writing that Law?

you are going to have to show me that scripture.

Leviticus 18:22, Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. An abomination is anything that is disgusting to God.

Leviticus 20:13, If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

all the best