Is Jesus God ?!!

[mms20102]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 86 by Tired of the Nonsense]

It's called faith. Faith is believing in something you can't see or explain, and I do not expect you to get it. But then again you should get it. As agnostic or atheist you are cornered into Darwinism. There is no way to explain how all the creatures of the earth got here except Creationism or Darwinism. That's it, there's no other way. I think we can agree on that. So as an atheist you place your belief in evolution, yet there is not one ounce of archeological evidence proving evolution. It is a theory with no concrete evidence, yet it's what you are forced to believe whether you like it or not. Not only is evolution absurd, the way the earth was formed according to scientist in my opinion takes more faith than to believe in God, there's only theories. Do you know that the chances of creating the protein needed to begin life in total randomness is 10 to the 390th power. That takes A LOT of faith. My beliefs are no more crazier than yours. They are all unexplainable and take some form of faith. You'll never admit it, you'll just try and rationalize it, maybe saying you don't believe in those theories but like it or not that's the category your thrown into by denying God. You are forced to prove how you got here just like I am and you can't. You can only deduct from reasoning with no proof what so ever. Relying on fallible science trying its best to prove something that can never be proven, it can only theorize.

In other words, faith is not knowing the answer to something, making up an answer, and declaring that to be true. That is NOT the way science works however.

First, considering evolution to be "only a theory," is to completely misunderstand scientific terminology. Scientific theories are a good deal different than "general notions."

Wikipedia
Scientific theory
A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.[1][2] Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[3]

It is important to note that the definition of a "scientific theory" (often ambiguously contracted to "theory" for the sake of brevity, including in this page) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from, and in contrast to, the common vernacular usage of the word "theory". As used in everyday non-scientific speech, "theory" implies that something is an unsubstantiated and speculative guess, conjecture, or hypothesis; such a usage is the opposite of a scientific theory. These different usages are comparable to the differing, and often opposing, usages of the term "prediction" in science (less ambiguously called a "scientific prediction") versus "prediction" in non-scientific vernacular speech, the latter of which may even imply a mere hope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page


And biologists do not suppose that proteins came together as an act of randomness, but rather as a process that occurs naturally in specific ways for specific reasons.


EVOLUTION FAQ

The Probability of Life

Creationists have long asserted that the chances of life forming naturally are so remote that they could not have happened. Read about how, in fact, the chances are much wider than most think.
by Richard Peacock
Probability of Life

Creationists often claim that the chances of a modern enzyme forming by random means are astronomically small, and therefore the chances of a complete bacterium (which is composed of hundreds or thousands of such enzymes & proteins) is so near to impossible that it would never happen in the 13 billion years or so since the universe took shape.

The main problem with this argument is that it assumes abiogenesis (the initial formation of life from simpler molecules) was a totally random process. It also assumes that in order for abiogenesis to be successful, a complete microbe would have had to form spontaneously. In fact, the same non-random forces which propel biological evolution also propelled abiogenesis. Specifically, Natural Selection.

The calculation which supports the creationist argument begins with the probability of a 300-molecule-long protein forming by total random chance. This would be approximately 1 chance in 10390. This number is astoundingly huge. By comparison, the number of all the atoms in the observable universe is 1080. So, if a simple protein has that unlikely chance of forming, what hope does a complete bacterium have?

If this were the theory of abiogeneisis, and if it relied entirely on random chance, then yes, it would be impossible for life to form in this way. However, this is not the case.

Abiogenesis was a long process with many small incremental steps, all governed by the non-random forces of Natural Selection and chemistry. The very first stages of abiogenesis were no more than simple self-replicating molecules, which might hardly have been called alive at all.

For example, the simplest theorized self-replicating peptide is only 32 amino acids long. The probability of it forming randomly, in sequential trials, is approximately 1 in 1040, which is much more likely than the 1 in 10390 claim creationists often cite.

Though, to be fair, 1040 is still a very large number. It would still take an incredibly large number of sequential trials before the peptide would form. But remember that in the prebiotic oceans of the early Earth, there would be billions of trials taking place simultaneously as the oceans, rich in amino acids, were continuously churned by the tidal forces of the moon and the harsh weather conditions of the Earth.

In fact, if we assume the volume of the oceans were 1024 liters, and the amino acid concentration was 10-6M (which is actually very dilute), then almost 1031 self-replicating peptides would form in under a year, let alone millions of years. So, even given the difficult chances of 1 in 1040, the first stages of abiogenesis could have started very quickly indeed.


Please note: this article uses a hypothetical self-replicating peptide as a model molecule for these calculations. The current theories of abiogenesis are usually based on the "RNA World" theory, where in fact self-replication was first acheived through RNA molecules, rather than DNA molecules.
http://evolutionfaq.com/articles/probability-life





Wikipedia
EVOLUTION

In March 2015, complex DNA and RNA organic compounds of life, including uracil, cytosine and thymine, were reportedly formed in the laboratory under outer space conditions, using starting chemicals, such as pyrimidine, found in meteorites. Pyrimidine, like polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), the most carbon-rich chemical found in the Universe, may have been formed in red giants or in interstellar dust and gas clouds, according to the scientists.[76]March 3, 2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA#cite_ ... 0150303-76


NASA

NASA Ames Reproduces the Building Blocks of Life in Laboratory
NASA scientists studying the origin of life have reproduced uracil, cytosine, and thymine, three key components of our hereditary material, in the laboratory. They discovered that an ice sample containing pyrimidine exposed to ultraviolet radiation under space-like conditions produces these essential ingredients of life.

Pyrimidine is a ring-shaped molecule made up of carbon and nitrogen and is the central structure for uracil, cytosine, and thymine, which are all three part of a genetic code found in ribonucleic (RNA) and deoxyribonucleic acids (DNA). RNA and DNA are central to protein synthesis, but also have many other roles.

Building Life's Compounds in Lab
An ice sample is held at approximately -440 degrees Fahrenheit in a vacuum chamber, where it is irradiated with high energy UV photons from a hydrogen lamp. The bombarding photons break chemical bonds in the ice samples and result in the formation of new compounds, such as uracil.
Credits: NASA/Dominic Hart
"We have demonstrated for the first time that we can make uracil, cytosine, and thymine, all three components of RNA and DNA, non-biologically in a laboratory under conditions found in space," said Michel Nuevo, research scientist at NASA's Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, California. "We are showing that these laboratory processes, which simulate conditions in outer space, can make several fundamental building blocks used by living organisms on Earth."

An ice sample is deposited on a cold (approximately –440 degrees Fahrenheit) substrate in a chamber, where it is irradiated with high-energy ultraviolet (UV) photons from a hydrogen lamp. The bombarding photons break chemical bonds in the ices and break down the ice's molecules into fragments that then recombine to form new compounds, such as uracil, cytosine, and thymine.

NASA Ames scientists have been simulating the environments found in interstellar space and the outer Solar System for years. During this time, they have studied a class of carbon-rich compounds, called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), that have been identified in meteorites, and which are the most common carbon-rich compound observed in the universe. PAHs typically are structures based on several six-carbon rings that resemble fused hexagons, or a piece of chicken wire.

The molecule pyrimidine is found in meteorites, although scientists still do not know its origin. It may be similar to the carbon-rich PAHs, in that it may be produced in the final outbursts of dying, giant red stars, or formed in dense clouds of interstellar gas and dust.

"Molecules like pyrimidine have nitrogen atoms in their ring structures, which makes them somewhat wimpy. As a less stable molecule, it is more susceptible to destruction by radiation, compared to its counterparts that don't have nitrogen," said Scott Sandford, a space science researcher at Ames. "We wanted to test whether pyrimidine can survive in space, and whether it can undergo reactions that turn it into more complicated organic species, such as the nucleobases uracil, cytosine, and thymine."

Nucleobases structures
Pyrimidine is a ring-shaped molecule made up of carbon and nitrogen and is the central structure for uracil, cytosine, and thymine, which are found in RNA and DNA.
Credits: NASA


Nucleobases cytosine thymine image
The ring-shaped molecule pyrimidine is found in cytosine and thymine.
Credits: NASA
In theory, the researchers thought that if molecules of pyrimidine could survive long enough to migrate into interstellar dust clouds, they might be able to shield themselves from destructive radiation. Once in the clouds, most molecules freeze onto dust grains (much like moisture in your breath condenses on a cold window during winter).

These clouds are dense enough to screen out much of the surrounding outside radiation of space, thereby providing some protection to the molecules inside the clouds.

Scientists tested their hypotheses in the Ames Astrochemistry Laboratory. During their experiment, they exposed the ice sample containing pyrimidine to ultraviolet radiation under space-like conditions, including a very high vacuum, extremely low temperatures (–440 degrees Fahrenheit), and harsh radiation.

They found that when pyrimidine is frozen in ice mostly consisting of water, but also ammonia, methanol, or methane, it is much less vulnerable to destruction by radiation than it would be if it were in the gas phase in open space. Instead of being destroyed, many of the molecules took on new forms, such as the RNA/DNA components uracil, cytosine, and thymine, which are found in the genetic make-up of all living organisms on Earth.

"We are trying to address the mechanisms in space that are forming these molecules. Considering what we produced in the laboratory, the chemistry of ice exposed to ultraviolet radiation may be an important linking step between what goes on in space and what fell to Earth early in its development," said Christopher Materese, another researcher at NASA Ames who has been working on these experiments.

"Nobody really understands how life got started on Earth. Our experiments suggest that once the Earth formed, many of the building blocks of life were likely present from the beginning. Since we are simulating universal astrophysical conditions, the same is likely wherever planets are formed," says Sandford.

Additional team members who helped perform some of the research are Jason Dworkin, Jamie Elsila, and Stefanie Milam, three NASA scientists at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland.

The research was funded by the NASA Astrobiology Institute (NAI) and the NASA Origins of Solar Systems Program. The NAI is a virtual, distributed organization of competitively-selected teams that integrates and funds astrobiology research and training programs in concert with the national and international science communities.

Ruth Marlaire
Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif.
650-604-4789
ruth.marlaire@nasa.gov

To receive local-only NASA Ames news, email local-reporters-request@lists.arc.nasa.gov with "subscribe" in the subject line. To unsubscribe, email the same address with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.

Last Updated: July 30, 2015
Editor: Ruth Marlaire

http://www.nasa.gov/content/nasa-ames-r ... laboratory

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 86 by Tired of the Nonsense]

It's called faith. Faith is believing in something you can't see or explain, and I do not expect you to get it. But then again you should get it. As agnostic or atheist you are cornered into Darwinism. There is no way to explain how all the creatures of the earth got here except Creationism or Darwinism. That's it, there's no other way. I think we can agree on that. So as an atheist you place your belief in evolution, yet there is not one ounce of archeological evidence proving evolution. It is a theory with no concrete evidence, yet it's what you are forced to believe whether you like it or not. Not only is evolution absurd, the way the earth was formed according to scientist in my opinion takes more faith than to believe in God, there's only theories. Do you know that the chances of creating the protein needed to begin life in total randomness is 10 to the 390th power. That takes A LOT of faith. My beliefs are no more crazier than yours. They are all unexplainable and take some form of faith. You'll never admit it, you'll just try and rationalize it, maybe saying you don't believe in those theories but like it or not that's the category your thrown into by denying God. You are forced to prove how you got here just like I am and you can't. You can only deduct from reasoning with no proof what so ever. Relying on fallible science trying its best to prove something that can never be proven, it can only theorize.

According to the Gospels and Acts, after Jesus was executed his followers began to spread the rumor that he had risen from the dead. They also spread the rumor that he had physically flown off, up into the sky. "It's true because they said so," is a very weak argument for supporting such an astonishingly unrealistic claim, I am afraid. More than simple faith is required. A huge portion of abject gullibility is also necessary. Not everyone possesses that much gullibility.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to FiremanWes77]

Not only is evolution absurd, the way the earth was formed according to scientist in my opinion takes more faith than to believe in God, there's only theories.

What part of the scientific theory on the way the Earth was formed do you find so difficult to believe?

[Monta]

[Replying to FiremanWes77]

"Not only is evolution absurd, the way the earth was formed according to scientist in my opinion takes more faith than to believe in God, there's only theories."

I have often thought the same.

"Faith is a substance of things not seen.." Substance is something that exists.

It is Life Force in all living things evident to all to observe.

[Closingaccountreadgmailna]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

From a Christian perspective I would argue the following:

Christianity in no way proclaims that Jesus is "God".

To the contrary it holds that Jesus is the "Only Begotten Son of God".

The Christian Gospels proclaim that no one comes to the Father but through the Son.

John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Christian Gospels proclaim that all Judgement has been given to the Son.

John.5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

The Christian Gospels proclaim that Jesus sits at the right hand of God.

Mark.16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

So Christianity holds that Jesus is clearly NOT God.

However, Christianity does hold that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God (not merely a prophet), and that no one comes to the Father but through Jesus, and that all judgement has been given to Jesus and the Father God judgeth no man, and that Jesus now sits in heaven at the right hand of God obviously judging all of humanity.

So whether Jesus is "God" or not seems irrelevant to the fate of humans. Humans must now appease Jesus in order to get to God anyway. So for all intents and purposes Jesus now serves as the "God over humans". And trying to get directly to God without going through his only begotten Son Jesus would clearly be impossible in Christianity, because no one comes to the Father but by Jesus.

Hope this helps you to better understand Christianity.

Christianity in no way claims that Jesus "Is God". It merely claims that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who has been given full authority by God to judge all humans.

I have to correct you.

Jesus is God.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 95 by rosary]

No rosary.

Jesus, in Latin is, "Iezeus."

Which means to the Latin (and Greek) speaking world of Jesus' era, Ie Zeus, or Hail Zeus.

Zeus, or Dyeus, or Deus, is still God today, in most of the Christian world; therefore most Christians worship Zeus, or Theos, therefore Zeus is god.

[mms20102]

[Replying to post 89 by FiremanWes77]

i hope u reply those verses and explain them
[quote="mms20102"]
[Replying to post 63 by Blastcat]

The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.
AL-MA'IDAH (5:75)

1- You are speaking about the bible so i ask you , Is there a proof from the bible that jesus said iam god >> no

2- Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4)

And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
(Exodus 7:1)

If you have the original language of the bible u will be reading the verse the same i wrote
I need to ask why "the god" is on small g while its a proper noun from the translation ? and is the Devil and Moses are Gods !

3- " because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. "
(John 14:28)

" My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. " (John 10:29)

“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me." (John 5:30)

those verses states clearly Jesus says Im not like father " my god "

4- " And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?� 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. "

again he speaks about his father

5- " But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. " (Mark 13:32)

If Jesus doesn't know and only The father knows then he is not god

6- "but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are " Hebrews 4:15
" Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. " Matthew 4:1

God gets tempted by satan ?

7- " Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. " Hebrews 5:8
is this a quality of god

8- "On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. 13 And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs."And he said to it, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.� And his disciples heard it.

If god the creator of figs don't know what season it comes then who knows

9- "Jesus wept. 36 So the Jews said, “See how he loved him!� 37 But some of them said, “Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man also have kept this man from dying?� Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.� Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, “Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days.� 40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God?� 41 So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me.� 43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out.� 44 The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.� John 11:35-44

again father is doing all the work jesus is just doing nothing but asking

10 - " Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know " Acts 2:22
said by peter

11- " And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep. "

do god sleep ?

12- After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.�

god gets thirst

13- “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
"Matthew 7:21-23"
and again and again .....


I am sorry i made it all repeated again so people may read again and answer again iam sorry i couldn't reply last period since it was time for omrah as i was busy with religious rituals now blast cat i would say to end our argument we need to make special debate about god existence as this place is not to argue how do i know god and gain for the tenth time we need to open a new debate for does go exists and i will be glad if invited to one for now i will be sticking to the topic is jesus god ... i would like to thank every one who shared their opinion but it seems no one has satisfied my questions above hope u can watch it

[Zzyzx]

.

I have to correct you.

Jesus is God.

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[Tired of the Nonsense]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

From a Christian perspective I would argue the following:

Christianity in no way proclaims that Jesus is "God".

To the contrary it holds that Jesus is the "Only Begotten Son of God".

The Christian Gospels proclaim that no one comes to the Father but through the Son.

John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Christian Gospels proclaim that all Judgement has been given to the Son.

John.5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

The Christian Gospels proclaim that Jesus sits at the right hand of God.

Mark.16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

So Christianity holds that Jesus is clearly NOT God.

However, Christianity does hold that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God (not merely a prophet), and that no one comes to the Father but through Jesus, and that all judgement has been given to Jesus and the Father God judgeth no man, and that Jesus now sits in heaven at the right hand of God obviously judging all of humanity.

So whether Jesus is "God" or not seems irrelevant to the fate of humans. Humans must now appease Jesus in order to get to God anyway. So for all intents and purposes Jesus now serves as the "God over humans". And trying to get directly to God without going through his only begotten Son Jesus would clearly be impossible in Christianity, because no one comes to the Father but by Jesus.

Hope this helps you to better understand Christianity.

Christianity in no way claims that Jesus "Is God". It merely claims that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who has been given full authority by God to judge all humans.

I have to correct you.

Jesus is God.

"O my Lord, because You are endowed with causeless mercy, all opulences, all prowess and all glories, strength and transcendental qualities, You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of everyone." (Bhagavad Gita- 6.19.5)


What does the above prayer to the Hindu god Vishnu taken from the sacred Hindu text of the Bhagavad Gita, have in common with your statement about Jesus? They are just words. Neither has any special power or validity just because someone says them or declares them to be true.

[Closingaccountreadgmailna]

[Replying to post 95 by rosary]

No rosary.

Jesus, in Latin is, "Iezeus."

Which means to the Latin (and Greek) speaking world of Jesus' era, Ie Zeus, or Hail Zeus.

Zeus, or Dyeus, or Deus, is still God today, in most of the Christian world; therefore most Christians worship Zeus, or Theos, therefore Zeus is god.

Sorry.

Jesus means in Hebrew: God saves.

Click here.