Which god is God?

[SallyF]

Many, many cultures have imagined God in many, many ways. Certain cultures declare everyone else's idea of God to be false.

How do we objectively determine whose version of God is NOT false?

[William]

2ndRateMind: Hmmm. I actually think there are approximately as many conceptions of God as there are people. And I don't see any reason why you should think my conception of my existing God and less valid than your conception of your non-existing God. But perhaps you have some kind of objective evidence for your point of view, that I am unaware of?

Zzyzx : Agree

And add: This is in addition to 'conceptions of gods' promoted by the world's 4000 religions and their plethora of 'denominations'.

William: There is no objective evidence of which can be provided for or against the existence of GOD. The individuals personal subjective interpretation of objective reality, is more opinion than objective evidence - either way. To the theist this amounts to GOD hiding in plain sight, revealing Its reality to the individual and to the non theist this amounts to GOD not being obvious and therefore, probably-to-definitely, not existing.

[Tcg]

And I don't see any reason why you should think my conception of my existing God and less valid than your conception of your non-existing God.

I've already expressed clearly my objection to your axiom that morphs on occasion into an "existing God", as it just has.


I am completely unaware of holding a conception of a "non-existing God." Perhaps you can explain how you have determined that I do.



Tcg

[Swami]

Many, many cultures have imagined God in many, many ways. Certain cultures declare everyone else's idea of God to be false.

How do we objectively determine whose version of God is NOT false?

The search for God is related, if not the same, to the search for the origin and nature of man. I'm speaking from my experience because I've found that one leads to the other. If you take my route, then fortunately there is an objective way to verify what I'm saying and it's through the practice of meditation. Through meditation, I've experienced (observed) the nature of "self" (a pure conscious being) which then led to the realization of a Universal consciousness being the ultimate reality. There is nothing beyond this Ultimate reality - the first source.

.

As far as your opinion regarding imagination goes, it appears to be a standardized cop-out used frequently enough by non-theists to sweepingly dismiss theism with a simply wave of the hand.

ANY of the thousands of 'gods' proposed, worshiped, loved, feared, and fought over by humans MAY be real -- awaiting verifiable evidence which, if any, are more than products of human imagination.

What question, specifically, would you propose to debate in H2H with a Non-Theist?

Even if William were to debate head-to-head, I question if that would convince you. Debate is overrated. What I've found to be effective at changing people's minds is when they experience God for themselves. Read up on Dr. Eben Alexander, who started out as a hardline materialist scientist and after experiencing he became open-minded and now questions materialism.

[2ndRateMind]

And I don't see any reason why you should think my conception of my existing God and less valid than your conception of your non-existing God.

I am completely unaware of holding a conception of a "non-existing God." Perhaps you can explain how you have determined that I do.

Perhaps I am assuming too much, but it seems to me that if you have a conception of something not existing, you must have some idea of what it is that does not exist. Or is that you believe in God, but just differ from me on the nature of that God?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 93 by Razorsedge]

Through meditation, I've experienced (observed) the nature of "self" (a pure conscious being) which then led to the realization of a Universal consciousness being the ultimate reality.

I take it this realisation only happened inside your own head …?

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 83 by Don McIntosh]

When I mention "evidence" I appeal to publicly accessible data. In the case of the resurrection of Jesus that means historical data, specifically: the widely attested apostolic testimony that Jesus had been buried in a tomb and had subsequently appeared to them following his death by crucifixion; the birth of the early church, in Jerusalem, on the preaching of the resurrection, and in the face of violent persecution; and the remarkably sudden, complete conversion of Saul of Tarsus, formerly a leader in the earliest efforts to destroy the Christian movement, based on his testimony (for which he later proved willing to die) that Christ had personally confronted him on the road to Damascus.

So sayeth the propaganda of the Jesus cult.


However …


You have not nominated your version of God.


You have not demonstrated that it exists.


You have not demonstrated that it is God with a capital G.


How may we objectively determine that your particular version of God is not false …?


Or, if you prefer, demonstrate that it is true.


That's what this thread is all about.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 93 by Razorsedge]

Through meditation, I've experienced (observed) the nature of "self" (a pure conscious being) which then led to the realization of a Universal consciousness being the ultimate reality.

I take it this realisation only happened inside your own head …?

It is a mistake, I think, to suppose that the only facts that are important are those that are objectively verifiable. Just as it is a mistake to think that God is an external entity, separate from us in the material way that other physical entities are. God is not physical, and inhabits us, just as our psychologies do. One of the reasons atheists are atheists is, I suspect, that they are looking for God outside themselves, rather than within each of us. And so they do not find Him.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 97 by 2ndRateMind]

Just as it is a mistake to think that God is an external entity, separate from us in the material way that other physical entities are. God is not physical,

The biblical version of God IS physical …!

It scratches things on tablets of stone with its finger, and it showed Moses its "back parts", and it has a face, and it hurls fire and brimstone down on gay people.

And I think it lived in a little wooden box when it visited this planet ...?

Seems pretty physical to me.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 97 by 2ndRateMind]

Just as it is a mistake to think that God is an external entity, separate from us in the material way that other physical entities are. God is not physical,

The biblical version of God IS physical …!

Allow some scope for poetic license!

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Swami]

[Replying to post 93 by Razorsedge]

Through meditation, I've experienced (observed) the nature of "self" (a pure conscious being) which then led to the realization of a Universal consciousness being the ultimate reality.

I take it this realisation only happened inside your own head …?

The process starts in your head but it ends at a different level of reality. When you meditate on self, this involves isolating the mind from consciousness. From there you're no longer experiencing with your "head" but rather you're experiencing the reality in a pure conscious state.

Mind ≠ consciousness. The mind/brain/body are simply a medium for consciousness.