Christian Forums ...Why?

[KCKID]

For a few weeks I've been 'lurking' on another Christian Forum wondering whether or not to sign up. Since I generally choose my battles to fight - those that I have an interest/knowledge in or, indeed, those that I may be quite passionate about - I DO have a habit of coming on pretty strong from the get-go. This, quite naturally, irks the 'oldies' of the forum somewhat that someone no one knows dares to jump in and rock the boat with barely a 'how-do-you-do'. I may very well feel the same about a new kid in town questioning something that we 'old timers' have already pretty well established. But, I hope not.

While I don't know if I should, or even that I'm allowed to, mention the forum by name, I DID sign up to it so that I could respond to a specific post that really annoyed me. The thread is about homosexuality/gay marriage (naturally) and is, as usual, a hot topic. I should have known better than to put in my nickel's worth because most of the posts on the 41 pages of debate (well, it's hardly a debate) are hostile to homosexuality because 'God sez that it's an abomination' and that's that! It was just like the lamb among the wolves scenerio and, as said, I should have known better. But, this one particular post by an 'old timer' and very popular with the other religious zealots made the claim: "The Lord finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible." I just couldn't let that lie pass without some kind of recourse. So, I asked of the poster to either present the scripture that states that Jesus finds homosexuality/gay marriage to be reprehensible or retract the statement. I also said that I'd respect him for retracting the statement which would be the right thing for him to do since such a scripture does not exist and that I'd raise the issue no more. Well, all hell has broken loose by the poster in question and his band of like-minded forum buddies. I'm a stone's throw away from being banned (not that I really want to stick around anyway) simply because I asked for scripture to back the claim or a withdrawal of the statement. Obviously, I have the guy backed into a corner ...I know it and he knows it.

Question/s: Why would such a reasonable question from me cause such a furore among professed Christians on a Christian Forum? I wanted scripture or retraction. The insults that have been hurled at me are SO unreasonable that they border on frothing-at-the-mouth hysteria. Have any of you experienced anything similar from such a band of merry men who tend to follow the leader and will resort to and continue to perpetuate lies rather than be seen to be backing down? Why is it SO important for some Christians on Christian sites to hurl their hate message at homosexual people (or those they consider to be 'their supporters') that they refuse to even CONSIDER other alternatives or interpretations of the scriptures that they use to do so? What kind of mentality is taking place among Christians when the term 'debate' is seen to be a threat?

Obviously, I have my own theories but I'd be interested in input from the rest of you as I'm always anxious to learn something new.

[PghPanther]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

[Ooberman]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

Jesus also praises men like Moses and Samson, the Hitler and Suicide bombers of their day.

[southern cross]

There are plenty of people that are born with mental illness. These people also get on their knee and pray. (irony be thy name) Guess what they still are the same. But wait....there is medication that can help them....So they take it.

Now I will glady say ....If a person want to be gay ....Most of the time it's because they were born this way and cannot be faulted for that.
But to say now....That this is how it should be and no help is needed in this area is also close minded.

If people can't see the difference between the purpose of a man and a women.....It's because, as science has proved....It is due to a chemical imbalance. Therefore .....yes God made them this way, just like anyone else with chemical imbalances.

But due to the hate of people toward this illness....instead of trying to help, like they do for other illnesses, people always acts stupid for thing they don't understand.

The question is still there.....If science can make couples choose what they want their child to be from sex to sexuality.....Who would choose their child to be gay?

The only ones who could choose this would be a gay person. But for this moment in time ....only gay women can carry children. Still need sperm from a male....No need for the sex part of it. Now all you have to do is get men to have children and who really cares about being male or female or even married.( as per religion)

this is life.

Is homophobia also a mental illness or racism? Does a blackman really want to be white? Is it mental illness that has people believing in different gods to the one you believe in? Do you propose developing a pill to change their minds, surely they all want to?
If your god offers you the choice between your child being born with spina bifida and would suffer it's entire life (less than 20yrs) but would be a heterosexual OR your child will be born homosexual and live a productive and happy life for 70yrs or so. Which would you choose?

[AdHoc]

There are plenty of people that are born with mental illness. These people also get on their knee and pray. (irony be thy name) Guess what they still are the same. But wait....there is medication that can help them....So they take it.

Now I will glady say ....If a person want to be gay ....Most of the time it's because they were born this way and cannot be faulted for that.
But to say now....That this is how it should be and no help is needed in this area is also close minded.

If people can't see the difference between the purpose of a man and a women.....It's because, as science has proved....It is due to a chemical imbalance. Therefore .....yes God made them this way, just like anyone else with chemical imbalances.

But due to the hate of people toward this illness....instead of trying to help, like they do for other illnesses, people always acts stupid for thing they don't understand.

The question is still there.....If science can make couples choose what they want their child to be from sex to sexuality.....Who would choose their child to be gay?

The only ones who could choose this would be a gay person. But for this moment in time ....only gay women can carry children. Still need sperm from a male....No need for the sex part of it. Now all you have to do is get men to have children and who really cares about being male or female or even married.( as per religion)

this is life.

Is homophobia also a mental illness or racism? Does a blackman really want to be white? Is it mental illness that has people believing in different gods to the one you believe in? Do you propose developing a pill to change their minds, surely they all want to?
If your god offers you the choice between your child being born with spina bifida, would suffer it's entire life (less than 20yrs) but would be a heterosexual OR your child will be born homosexual and live a productive and happy life for 70yrs or so. Which would you choose?

What do you hope to ascertain with these types of hypotheticals?

To me its like the SNL skit "Would you rather be the top scientist in your field or get mad cow disease?"

"What?"

"It's not rocket science doctor, would you rather be the top scientist in your field or get mad cow?"

"Uh... I guess the top scientist in my field"

"Phew!... For a second there I thought you were going to choose mad cow"

[southern cross]

There are plenty of people that are born with mental illness. These people also get on their knee and pray. (irony be thy name) Guess what they still are the same. But wait....there is medication that can help them....So they take it.

Now I will glady say ....If a person want to be gay ....Most of the time it's because they were born this way and cannot be faulted for that.
But to say now....That this is how it should be and no help is needed in this area is also close minded.

If people can't see the difference between the purpose of a man and a women.....It's because, as science has proved....It is due to a chemical imbalance. Therefore .....yes God made them this way, just like anyone else with chemical imbalances.

But due to the hate of people toward this illness....instead of trying to help, like they do for other illnesses, people always acts stupid for thing they don't understand.

The question is still there.....If science can make couples choose what they want their child to be from sex to sexuality.....Who would choose their child to be gay?

The only ones who could choose this would be a gay person. But for this moment in time ....only gay women can carry children. Still need sperm from a male....No need for the sex part of it. Now all you have to do is get men to have children and who really cares about being male or female or even married.( as per religion)

this is life.

Is homophobia also a mental illness or racism? Does a blackman really want to be white? Is it mental illness that has people believing in different gods to the one you believe in? Do you propose developing a pill to change their minds, surely they all want to?
If your god offers you the choice between your child being born with spina bifida, would suffer it's entire life (less than 20yrs) but would be a heterosexual OR your child will be born homosexual and live a productive and happy life for 70yrs or so. Which would you choose?

What do you hope to ascertain with these types of hypotheticals?

To me its like the SNL skit "Would you rather be the top scientist in your field or get mad cow disease?"

"What?"

"It's not rocket science doctor, would you rather be the top scientist in your field or get mad cow?"

"Uh... I guess the top scientist in my field"

"Phew!... For a second there I thought you were going to choose mad cow"

See if the keeper can throw that back to you, I don't think you even saw it go past. Never mind some things are beyond some people.

[Baz]

A question that came to me from resent posts; According to fundamental Christian beliefs is it more sinful to be homosexual and believe in Christ than it is to not believe in Christ?

[charles_hamm]

But most Christians will probably never concede that homosexuality is 'okay'. I doubt that this animosity toward homosexuality is driven by anything the Bible may or may not say about the subject anyway. Most Christians simply use the Bible to support their own 'unease' about homosexuality. Using the Bible/God/Jesus to condemn homosexuality is just a smoke screen and is deception big time! People have been using the Bible for such purposes pretty well forever. As I've said many times on this forum, if Christians were REALLY concerned about 'what God sez' they would be just as zealously opposed to divorce and remarriage as they are toward homosexuality ...actually much more so since the former is FAR MORE rampant within the Church. That they don't seem to bat an eye over this speaks volumes as to their REAL intent toward homosexuality which is nothing to do with the Bible but purely personal.

That's actually a really good point, there is no scriptural support for remarriage after divorce but that hasn't stopped some people from asserting there is

I have just been informed in this very thread that the "age of homophobe bashing is about to begin".

These are just words and probably little more. I wouldn't take it too seriously. But then again, if a person IS actually a homophobe and continually shows their backside in making life unpleasnt for the homosexual then perhaps, yes, their butt needs to be kicked.

Let's hope at this point they do not escalate the conflict but decide instead to turn the other cheek.
(insert collective groan here)

This shouldn't concern me personally because I have nothing against homosexuals and I do not consider myself a homophobe... Problem is other people probably do because I disagree with homosexuality.

The only ones that I would call homophobes would be those who, as said above, go out of their way to make life unpleasant for the homosexual. That said, I don't think that it's a matter of agreeing with or not agreeing with homosexuality. It's a matter of acknowledging that homosexuals are real people with real needs and leave it at that. I hate rap music with a passion and so I don't listen to it. Likewise, for those who are not tuned into homosexuality, then don't participate in it.

Whoa... Whoa... Whoa... Why you all hatin' on rap music?
It's da bomb KC
Peace out

Actually there are at least four verses I know of that deal with divorce and remarriage.

Matthew 5:32
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

This is the exception claus for sexual immorality.

1 Corinthians 7:15
But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

This usually considered another exception since it pertains to unequally yoked relationships. I doesn't directly say a believer can but it is from my experience taught this way.

Romans 7:2,3
A married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. This means that if she is married to another man while her first husband is alive, she is guilty of adultery. She is free to remarry without guilt only if her husband is dead.

The final exception is death. Marriage is a covenant during life but if the spouse dies the husband/wife is free to remarry.

As for the homophobe bashing statement (from another poster), that is taking things a bit too far.

[southern cross]

But most Christians will probably never concede that homosexuality is 'okay'. I doubt that this animosity toward homosexuality is driven by anything the Bible may or may not say about the subject anyway. Most Christians simply use the Bible to support their own 'unease' about homosexuality. Using the Bible/God/Jesus to condemn homosexuality is just a smoke screen and is deception big time! People have been using the Bible for such purposes pretty well forever. As I've said many times on this forum, if Christians were REALLY concerned about 'what God sez' they would be just as zealously opposed to divorce and remarriage as they are toward homosexuality ...actually much more so since the former is FAR MORE rampant within the Church. That they don't seem to bat an eye over this speaks volumes as to their REAL intent toward homosexuality which is nothing to do with the Bible but purely personal.

That's actually a really good point, there is no scriptural support for remarriage after divorce but that hasn't stopped some people from asserting there is

I have just been informed in this very thread that the "age of homophobe bashing is about to begin".

These are just words and probably little more. I wouldn't take it too seriously. But then again, if a person IS actually a homophobe and continually shows their backside in making life unpleasnt for the homosexual then perhaps, yes, their butt needs to be kicked.

Let's hope at this point they do not escalate the conflict but decide instead to turn the other cheek.
(insert collective groan here)

This shouldn't concern me personally because I have nothing against homosexuals and I do not consider myself a homophobe... Problem is other people probably do because I disagree with homosexuality.

The only ones that I would call homophobes would be those who, as said above, go out of their way to make life unpleasant for the homosexual. That said, I don't think that it's a matter of agreeing with or not agreeing with homosexuality. It's a matter of acknowledging that homosexuals are real people with real needs and leave it at that. I hate rap music with a passion and so I don't listen to it. Likewise, for those who are not tuned into homosexuality, then don't participate in it.

Whoa... Whoa... Whoa... Why you all hatin' on rap music?
It's da bomb KC
Peace out

Actually there are at least four verses I know of that deal with divorce and remarriage.

Matthew 5:32
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

This is the exception claus for sexual immorality.

1 Corinthians 7:15
But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

This usually considered another exception since it pertains to unequally yoked relationships. I doesn't directly say a believer can but it is from my experience taught this way.

Romans 7:2,3
A married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. This means that if she is married to another man while her first husband is alive, she is guilty of adultery. She is free to remarry without guilt only if her husband is dead.

The final exception is death. Marriage is a covenant during life but if the spouse dies the husband/wife is free to remarry.

As for the homophobe bashing statement (from another poster), that is taking things a bit too far.

I find it amazing the rules that ancient goat and camel herds came up with. Oh wait they were all men. Nah doesn't help.

[charles_hamm]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

I don't see how this is a difficult situation. The Bible addresses issues that happen today. In my opinion, the fact that some groups don't like or accept the way the Bible addresses these issue doesn't put Christians in a difficult situation at all. The Bible is not a book that is meant to be updated every so many years to reflect the current issues. If you read it carefully it addressed them when it was first written and those principles still stand today.

[charles_hamm]

Christians are in a difficult situation if they know enough about the words suppose to be quoted by Jesus and how it relates to the old testament........

Christ makes it very clear that the law of the old testament will not be tampered with and will remain intact..........he claims to fullfill that law.............he makes reference to both the garden and the flood as actual events..............he also reference to slavery without ever condeming it.

If a person of faith has read the whole Bible they would see that the clash of old the new testament is completely and culturally lost in dealing with social issues today.

Jesus also praises men like Moses and Samson, the Hitler and Suicide bombers of their day.

Please provide proof Moses was like Hitler and Samson was a suicide bomber or please retract your statement.