Why did Jesus present two different paths to eternal life?

[Tcg]

.
In Matthew 19, Jesus answers a young man's question. The question is, “Teacher,
what good thing must I do to get eternal life?� Jesus answers, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.�

In John 3, Jesus is talking with a Pharisee named Nicodemus. Jesus confuses Nicodemus when he speaks of the need to be born again. Jesus then speaks more directly and states, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.�

In Matthew 19, the path is to keep the commandments. In John 3, it is belief.

Why did Jesus teach two different paths to eternal life?


Tcg

[WeSee]

[Replying to post 10 by Elijah John]


The Synoptics better represent the real, historical Jesus and his positions than does the outlier, Gospel of John, which is heavily tinged with the author's theological commentary put on the lips of Jesus.


Taken as a whole the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John also point to righteousness, i.e., "keep the commandments", as the ultimate requirement for eternal life.

[1213]

….In Matthew 19, Jesus answers a young man's question. The question is, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?� Jesus answers, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.�

In John 3, Jesus is talking with a Pharisee named Nicodemus. Jesus confuses Nicodemus when he speaks of the need to be born again. Jesus then speaks more directly and states, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.�….

If you believe Jesus, you keep the commandments. And if you keep the commandments, you are born again. That is why I don’t see any problem there.

[WeSee]

….In Matthew 19, Jesus answers a young man's question. The question is, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?� Jesus answers, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.�

In John 3, Jesus is talking with a Pharisee named Nicodemus. Jesus confuses Nicodemus when he speaks of the need to be born again. Jesus then speaks more directly and states, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.�….

If you believe Jesus, you keep the commandments. And if you keep the commandments, you are born again. That is why I don’t see any problem there.

Seems like the vast majority of Christians believe that they don't truly have to KEEP His commandments to receive eternal life. That is to say that they believe that they can continue to sin and receive eternal life.

[Overcomer]

It’s imperative to look at verses in context. Consider the following:

Point #1: Jesus lists ONLY those commandments that pertain to our relationship with others with the notable exception of the one regarding covetousness. He does not mention the commandments that have to do with our relationship with God.

Point #2: Most “good� Jews would tell you that they have successfully kept those commandments that the rich young ruler claimed to have kept. Whether they actually had or not is an entirely different matter. Given our lack of perfection, it’s probably safe to say they have not.

Point #3: Note that the rich young ruler knows that he still hasn’t done enough, that he lacks something in his efforts to please God (verse 20).

Point #3: Look at Luke’s telling of this story. It’s placed between other stories that have to do with money. Jews believed that the wealthy were rich because God was blessing them for keeping his commandments. Conversely, they believed that the poor lacked money because they had failed to please the Lord. But Jesus turns this whole idea upside down in his discussion with the rich young man who counts his money more important than pleasing or following God. Jesus notes that it is easier to thread a camel through a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven – that is, a man who regards his money more highly than he does God.

Point #4: When Jesus tells the rich young ruler that he has to give up his wealth, the man can’t do it. This means that he hasn’t been and isn’t likely to keep the first four commandments, the ones that have to do with our relationship with the Lord, specifically God’s request that we have no other gods before him with money being a god that many worship.

Bottom line: Jesus is not saying that we have to keep all the commandments and earn our way into heaven. In fact, he is pointing out the exact opposite, making it clear that nobody can or does keep all of them, especially the ones about honouring God first and foremost. His exchange with the rich young ruler demonstrates that, as “good� as we might think we are and as assiduously as we think we have followed his commandments, we are always going to fail in keeping them perfectly and will retain idols in our lives -- idols that stand between us and the Lord. Therefore, since no one can make himself “good� as God is good, that is, sin-free, we cannot earn our way into his presence for eternity. That's why we need Jesus and his gift of salvation.

Therefore, there is no contradiction. As I said, it’s imperative to read verses in context, not just within the chapter in which they are found, but within the specific book and, indeed, within the entire Bible.

See here for someone else’s explanation of the passage:

https://www.gotquestions.org/rich-young-ruler.html

[WeSee]

It’s imperative to look at verses in context. Consider the following:

Point #1: Jesus lists ONLY those commandments that pertain to our relationship with others with the notable exception of the one regarding covetousness. He does not mention the commandments that have to do with our relationship with God.

Point #2: Most “good� Jews would tell you that they have successfully kept those commandments that the rich young ruler claimed to have kept. Whether they actually had or not is an entirely different matter. Given our lack of perfection, it’s probably safe to say they have not.

Point #3: Note that the rich young ruler knows that he still hasn’t done enough, that he lacks something in his efforts to please God (verse 20).

Point #3: Look at Luke’s telling of this story. It’s placed between other stories that have to do with money. Jews believed that the wealthy were rich because God was blessing them for keeping his commandments. Conversely, they believed that the poor lacked money because they had failed to please the Lord. But Jesus turns this whole idea upside down in his discussion with the rich young man who counts his money more important than pleasing or following God. Jesus notes that it is easier to thread a camel through a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven – that is, a man who regards his money more highly than he does God.

Point #4: When Jesus tells the rich young ruler that he has to give up his wealth, the man can’t do it. This means that he hasn’t been and isn’t likely to keep the first four commandments, the ones that have to do with our relationship with the Lord, specifically God’s request that we have no other gods before him with money being a god that many worship.

Bottom line: Jesus is not saying that we have to keep all the commandments and earn our way into heaven. In fact, he is pointing out the exact opposite, making it clear that nobody can or does keep all of them, especially the ones about honouring God first and foremost. His exchange with the rich young ruler demonstrates that, as “good� as we might think we are and as assiduously as we think we have followed his commandments, we are always going to fail in keeping them perfectly and will retain idols in our lives -- idols that stand between us and the Lord. Therefore, since no one can make himself “good� as God is good, that is, sin-free, we cannot earn our way into his presence for eternity. That's why we need Jesus and his gift of salvation.

Therefore, there is no contradiction. As I said, it’s imperative to read verses in context, not just within the chapter in which they are found, but within the specific book and, indeed, within the entire Bible.

See here for someone else’s explanation of the passage:

https://www.gotquestions.org/rich-young-ruler.html

Bottom line: Jesus is not saying that we have to keep all the commandments and earn our way into heaven. In fact, he is pointing out the exact opposite, making it clear that nobody can or does keep all of them, especially the ones about honouring God first and foremost.

Those who would say what Jesus had in mind and say that what He meant was actually the opposite of what He said, need to provide reasonable evidence that the opposite was what He actually had in mind.

The problem with your "bottom line" of course is that Jesus didn't say anything of the kind in that passage. In fact Jesus didn't say anything of the kind anywhere during His ministry while He was preaching His gospel. If anything, Jesus repeatedly pointed in the other direction including the passage in question.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 1 by Tcg]

Christianity 100% does believe in salvation by works. Everyone not relying on salavation by faith in Jesus is going to be judged by their works.

I just don't like my chances of passing on my own merit.

I totally agree with this view of this ancient theology. But unlike you, I have absolutely no problem at all being judged on my own merit. I feel extremely sorry for people who would be afraid to be judged based on who they truly are. That would indeed be an extremely sad situation to be in.

However, as a Christian, you should be able to recognize that even Jesus condoned my path. I don't need Jesus to be my "savior" because I've chosen to be judged on my own merit. Therefore Jesus did not die to pay for my sins, and I am not responsible for his crucifixion.

As a Christian who recognizes these two pathways to heaven you should be able to recognize that my pathway is every bit as valid as your pathway according to Jesus, and I don't even need to recognize or acknowledge Jesus as "King", because he's not my King. I've chosen to be judged on my own merit, remember?

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 1 by Tcg]

Interesting, but ultimately futile simply because the bible was written by imperfect people for political and social reasons, later edited (time upon time) by others with similar, or even more nefarious, goals.

In other words, taking the bible as 100% on anything is erroneous IMO. Use it as a guide. Otherwise, you spend too much time and energy trying to figure out what some dead guy meant originally, then what some other dead guys meant afterwards.

I guess maybe people have too much time on their hands and are OK with that.

[Tcg]

Taken as a whole the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John also point to righteousness, i.e., "keep the commandments", as the ultimate requirement for eternal life.

Perhaps you are referring to John 14:15 where Jesus says, "If you love me, keep my commandments." If so, there doesn't seem to be any connection to that statement and eternal life.

Additionally, Nicodemus didn't have access to the gospel of John. All he had were the words Jesus spoke to him. If keeping the commandments were the path to eternal life, why would Jesus leave Nicodemus with an incomplete and perhaps even misleading picture?


Tcg

[Tcg]

….In Matthew 19, Jesus answers a young man's question. The question is, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?� Jesus answers, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.�

In John 3, Jesus is talking with a Pharisee named Nicodemus. Jesus confuses Nicodemus when he speaks of the need to be born again. Jesus then speaks more directly and states, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.�….

If you believe Jesus, you keep the commandments. And if you keep the commandments, you are born again. That is why I don’t see any problem there.

That's an interesting opinion, but I don't see where John 3 supports that idea. Can you provide the verses that clearly support this opinion?


Tcg

[Divine Insight]

In other words, taking the bible as 100% on anything is erroneous IMO. Use it as a guide. Otherwise, you spend too much time and energy trying to figure out what some dead guy meant originally, then what some other dead guys meant afterwards.

But if you want to believe in God then you aren't trying to figure out what some dead guy might have meant. Instead, you're trying to figure out what God might have meant. And that's actually quite a problem for this theology.

I guess maybe people have too much time on their hands and are OK with that.

In this theology if you get God's directives and commandments wrong you will spend eternity in hell. So if you're a believer, then you had definitely better spend all your precious time trying to get it right. There is surely nothing more important you could ever find to do than to assure your eternal fate.

So believers had better get it right. They can't afford the luxury of getting it wrong. In this religion eternal damnation awaits those who get it wrong.