Why don't religious people just go to heaven?

[Compassionist]

Billions of people on Earth believe that when the die they will go to heaven. Why don't they just kill themselves and go to heaven? My brother died at the age of 8 days because the doctor made mistakes. My parents told me that my brother went to heaven to live there in happiness for ever and ever. I asked them, "Why don't we all die and join him in heaven?" They said that it was forbidden to commit suicide. Makes me think that there really isn't any heaven after death. Why bother with life before death when life after death is promised to be infinitely better?

[bluegreenearth]

[quote="Checkpoint"]

JehovahsWitness has demonstrated psychological projection by accusing others of believing comforting lies.

Pyschological Projection:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 30 by Compassionist]

I am not seeking agreement I am pointing that those that put their hope in humans doing anything but wiping us well out before our time are living in cloud cuckoo land. It would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic. I prefer disturbing truths to comforting lies. Most people still prefer comforting lies to the facts of life.


But hey, whatever gets you through the day,


Peace out,



JW

Moderator Comment

Hi JW - instead of saying 'cloud cuckoo land', which implies too much. How about, 'are holding a false belief', 'are being irrational', 'are not observing human nature over history correctly'.

I think we should be allowed, after evidence, to call a belief irrational, that is what we are doing when we debate really.

It made me think of the song line, 'a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down'. Small differences in tone, will at least allow each other to participate in the forum and feel respected at the end.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Compassionist]

…My friend committed suicide. I consider her to be righteous. If you were her, you would have done the same thing. Thou shall not judge!

Sad to hear that. But please notice, I didn’t mean to judge. I just don’t see how righteous person could commit suicide.

And, I am not claiming that I am righteous, but please explain why do you think I would have done the same? What is a good and wise reason to commit suicide?

I am not judging you. Our choices are determined by the dynamic interaction of genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. If you were my friend, you would have had her genes, environments, nutrients and experiences and consequently, you would have made her choices. We are not free from causality. We are the products of causality. Our choices are not made free from the determining effects of our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences.

There are many benefits to committing suicide. For example, I am a regular blood donor and I have been on the organ donor register of the British NHS since May 1997. If I were to commit suicide now, my organs could save many lives. Also, my death would end my suffering - I have experienced and continue to experience many health problems and injuries since I was conceived without my consent into this horrific reality full of suffering, unfairness and deaths. The only reason I have not yet committed suicide is that I have a duty of care towards my parents, my sons, my wife, my dog and all the living things I help through my work, volunteering and donations. If I were to commit suicide or die of another cause, these good deeds will need to be done by others or they will no longer be done and the beneficiaries of all my good deeds will suffer.

If you were my friend, you would have Bipolar Affective Disorder like her and you would have mood swings along the mood scale below:

+5: Total loss of judgement, exorbitant spending, religious delusions or hallucinations.
+4: Lost touch with reality, incoherent, no sleep, paranoid and vindictive, reckless behaviour.
+3: Inflated self-esteem, rapid thoughts and speech, counter-productive simultaneous tasks.
+2: Very productive, everything to excess, charming and talkative.
+1: Self-esteem good, optimistic, sociable and articulate, good decisions and get work done.
0: Mood in balance, no symptoms of depression or mania.
-1: Slight withdrawal from social situations, concentration less than usual, slight agitation.
-2: Feeling of panic and anxiety, concentration difficult and memory poor, some comfort in routine.
-3: Slow thinking, no appetite, need to be alone, sleep excessive or difficult, everything a struggle.
-4: Feeling of hopelessness and guilt, thoughts of suicide, little movement, impossible to do anything.
-5: Endless suicidal thoughts, no way out, no movement, everything is bleak and it will always be like this.

[William]

[Replying to post 40 ]

Checkpoint: What exactly is "psychological projection"?


Psychological Projection: Dealing With Undesirable Emotions

[Compassionist]

I didn't say that going vegan would protect us from nuclear war. However, if we all became a compassionist like me, that would protect us from nuclear war. It is unlikely that we would all become compassionists but we are getting more ethical.

Really? And you support this with the decrease in global conflicts, crime, coroprate corruption and the governments tendency to listen to the common people? I don't want to burst your bubble but someone has to introduce some reality to the rose coloured future you seem to have built up in your imagination.

You don't believe in God, fine, I have no problem with that, but I do take exception to you accusing believers if living in some fantasy world to escape the harsh realities if life and then waxing lyrical about how the arms race will end with the rich, the evil and the greedy dropping their bags of loot in favor of a particularly hearty chorus of kimbaya.



JW

Only suffering, unfairness and deaths are guaranteed for sentient biological organisms. While science and technology has reduced some suffering and postponed some deaths, we are not all-knowing and all-powerful so we can't go back in time and prevent all suffering, unfairness and deaths. If the Bible is true, then the Biblical God is evil. If the Bible is false (which it is), then the Bibilcal God is imaginary (which it is). I am challenging your God to prove me wrong by being real and good.

[JehovahsWitness]

I wish you a fulfilling life.

You too and I didn't mean to offend. I was just pointing out in view of the evidence your optimism seems unfounded to me, laughable even pathetic (I'm not calling YOU pathetic or laughable, I'm saying the idea, the notion is so removed from our present day reality *it* (not you) appears laughable and pathetic.

I cannot put it any better than the following posters did (talking on entirely different topics but if I may borrow their words)... I have to wonder if those that think that humanity will break the trend and pull itself up by its own bootstraps despite all evidence to the contrary are simply using a psychological crutch" " because they are fearful of reality.

NOTE I am making a general statement I am not talking about you. I am talking about some people I have spoken to (not on this forum).

As our dear Marcos might say ....

I was trying to inject some reality into the world you have conjured up.

Peace,


JW



ps I withdraw my reference to cloud cuckoo land and while I await SallyF to provide me with a meme that will speak the thousand words I am not eloquent enough to say will just say...

To be fair some absurdity exists if we're fortunate enough to be travelling at the speed of light and get a boost.

[strike]cloud cuckoo land[/strike]... believe evident absurdities.

... simply a psychological crutch for people who are more fearful of death.

I was trying to inject some reality into the world you have conjured up.

[Bust Nak]

JehovahsWitness has demonstrated psychological projection by accusing others of believing comforting lies.

Moderator Warning

Do not make personal remarks about other posters.

Please review our Rules.

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Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Tcg]

You too and I didn't mean to offend. I was just pointing out in view of the evidence your optimism seems unfounded to me, laughable even pathetic (I'm not calling YOU pathetic or laughable, I'm saying the idea, the notion is so removed from our present day reality *it* (not you) appears laughable and pathetic.

If the evidence indeed points to humans as the source of the problems humans are experiencing, then humans can, at least potentially, be the resolution to these problems.

We have clear evidence that humans exist. The same can't be said of gods of any kind. Given that, the idea that a god of some sort will resolve these problems is even more laughable even more pathetic (I'm not calling YOU more pathetic or more laughable, I'm saying the idea, the notion is so removed from our present day reality *it* (not you) appears more laughable and more pathetic.)


Tcg

[1213]

…Our choices are determined by the dynamic interaction of genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. If you were my friend, you would have had her genes, environments, nutrients and experiences and consequently, you would have made her choices. We are not free from causality. We are the products of causality. Our choices are not made free from the determining effects of our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences.

Sorry, I don’t believe that.

There are many benefits to committing suicide. For example, I am a regular blood donor and I have been on the organ donor register of the British NHS since May 1997. If I were to commit suicide now, my organs could save many lives. Also, my death would end my suffering - I have experienced and continue to experience many health problems and injuries since I was conceived without my consent into this horrific reality full of suffering, unfairness and deaths. The only reason I have not yet committed suicide is that I have a duty of care towards my parents, my sons, my wife, my dog and all the living things I help through my work, volunteering and donations. If I were to commit suicide or die of another cause, these good deeds will need to be done by others or they will no longer be done and the beneficiaries of all my good deeds will suffer.

But if life is painful, why donate blood and organs, so that others would also suffer longer?

But, I am sorry to hear that you are suffering. I hope you could move your focus on nicer things.

If you were my friend, you would have Bipolar Affective Disorder like her and you would have mood swings along the mood scale below:

To me it sounds weird if some people are not able to handle their feelings and focus. But, it may be that without God I would be in similar situation.

[marco]

You are most welcome, "ALL LIVES MATTER" is my motto. I couldn't live with myself when the end comes if I didn't do all I could to save those that God is going to execute (kill)*.

If he is going to do it then your intervention will not affect anything. Hebrews 9:27 tells us: "Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment." I wonder where this "second" death comes in.