If there is an afterlife

[pleinmont]

In the unlikely event of there being an afterlife what will it be like? Would we be the same people we are here on earth or totally different? If someone passes into the afterlife as a child, will they stay as such, not growing into an adult? If a person has a disability or illness will they continue to suffer from it?

What do others think?

[1213]

In the unlikely event of there being an afterlife what will it be like? Would we be the same people we are here on earth or totally different? If someone passes into the afterlife as a child, will they stay as such, not growing into an adult? If a person has a disability or illness will they continue to suffer from it?

What do others think?

Bible tells about it this:

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like God's angels in heaven. But concerning the resurrection of the dead, haven't you read that which was spoken to you by God, saying,
Matt. 22:30-31

So, I think people are not physically the same. But I believe their soul/mind is much the same.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 2 by 2ndRateMind]

I think that it is souls that are saved (or not) and not our bodies or minds.

What is the point if your mind is gone?

[Menotu]

Samuel was definitely dead. The witch however (and possible the demon pretending to be samuel) was alive.

Can the biblical narrator be confused by a demon?

Evidentially, so it seems.

Makes you wonder about other 'confusions'. Or maybe the confused are those who claim absolute truth without fully understanding?

Or maybe it simply (when all else fails) was 'the devil' did it?

[Diagoras]

So, I think people are not physically the same. But I believe their soul/mind is much the same.

Well, being physically the same is of course impossible. No argument there.

The idea that my mind would be much the same if it were suddenly to be detached from my body is a lot harder to accept. All of my experiences up to this point will have come from my senses, and then after death, Id be physically blind, deaf and dumb - no longer feeling heat or cold, experiencing hunger or anger (caused by various hormones sloshing around and neurones firing). Without a physical brain to store memories, I dont think Id even have language anymore.

The romantic idea of a soul or spirit existing like some form of invisible ghost with the memory of a physical form has no scientific basis. Until we can turn the science fiction idea of downloading our consciousness, we should accept the idea of an afterlife as mere fable.

[Red Wolf]

There is no afterlife....the Bible tells us there is no afterlife....
Read it for yourself....

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20New American Standard Bible (NASB)
18 I said to myself concerning the sons of men, God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts. 19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. 20 All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.

Ecclesiastes 9:2-6New American Standard Bible (NASB)
2 It is the same for all. There is one fate for the righteous and for the wicked; for the good, for the clean and for the unclean; for the man who offers a sacrifice and for the one who does not sacrifice. As the good man is, so is the sinner; as the swearer is, so is the one who is afraid to swear. 3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that there is one fate for all men. Furthermore, the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives. Afterwards they go to the dead. 4 For whoever is joined with all the living, there is hope; surely a live dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.

[JehovahsWitness]

Samuel was definitely dead. The witch however (and possible the demon pretending to be samuel) was alive.

Can the biblical narrator be confused by a demon?

What makes you think the narrator was confused at all? The narrator's job is to say what happened. In the narrative Saul (and possibly the woman) believed it was Samuel. All we know is that the only person that "saw" the apparition was the witch and I for one am not about to vouche for her character. Saul identified "Samuel" from her description and we the reader have to come to decide if it was really Samuel or not by means of critical thinking skills.

Those lacking the ability to think critically may well find the bible confusing.

JW

[SallyF]

There is no afterlife....the Bible tells us there is no afterlife....
Read it for yourself....

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20New American Standard Bible (NASB)
18 I said to myself concerning the sons of men, God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts. 19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. 20 All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.

Ecclesiastes 9:2-6New American Standard Bible (NASB)
2 It is the same for all. There is one fate for the righteous and for the wicked; for the good, for the clean and for the unclean; for the man who offers a sacrifice and for the one who does not sacrifice. As the good man is, so is the sinner; as the swearer is, so is the one who is afraid to swear. 3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that there is one fate for all men. Furthermore, the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives. Afterwards they go to the dead. 4 For whoever is joined with all the living, there is hope; surely a live dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.

Excellent observations, Member Red Wolf !

The Jesus character had the same difficulty with the Sadducees.

And his propagandists have him dodge the issue (a Christian tradition).

That sect followed the Ecclesiastes line you have here.

Jewish folks are still ambivalent about the soul business.

The sect that Jesus was born into (possibly Essene) seem to have imagined an afterlife.

The passage you have here says "God" - which will refer to the old Canaanite Elohim.

The newer Pharisaic sect with their new Jehovah god, DID imagine an afterlife.

I hypothesis that the Jehovah sect took of the Elohim sect and wrote Jehovah into and over the old propaganda/"scripture"

Hence the numerous contradictions.

A very simple and effective explanation.

[Elijah John]

Those lacking the ability to think critically may well find the bible confusing.

JW

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[JehovahsWitness]

There is no afterlife....the Bible tells us there is no afterlife....
Read it for yourself....

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20New American Standard Bible (NASB)
18 I said to myself concerning the sons of men, God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts. 19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. 20 All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.

Ecclesiastes 9:2-6New American Standard Bible (NASB)
2 It is the same for all. There is one fate for the righteous and for the wicked; for the good, for the clean and for the unclean; for the man who offers a sacrifice and for the one who does not sacrifice. As the good man is, so is the sinner; as the swearer is, so is the one who is afraid to swear. 3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that there is one fate for all men. Furthermore, the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives. Afterwards they go to the dead. 4 For whoever is joined with all the living, there is hope; surely a live dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.

I have to agree. A human is made of physical body animated by the Gods life force. Upon death there is nothing of the individual that survives, at that moment he or she ceases to exist.



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Samuel was definitely dead. The witch however (and possible the demon pretending to be samuel) was alive.

Can the biblical narrator be confused by a demon?

I do apologise, no offense was intended. What I meant to say is that the bible does require a degree of thoughtful analysis to come to reasonable conclusions. Sometimes the narrative simply presents the actions without explaining what conclusions should be drawn. In those cases one has to use ones critical thinking skills (of which you have proven through your profound, detailedz and most insightful posts to possess in abundance ) to come to a conclusion if there was more to the events than initially might meet a less discerning eye than you evidently have.

In the narrative Saul (and possibly the woman) believed it was Samuel. We read that the only person that "saw" the apparition was the witch and I for one am not about to vouche for her character. Saul identified "Samuel" from her description and we the reader have to come to decide if it was really Samuel or not by means of critical thinking skills.

JW