Faith and not proof

[Menotu]

Thoughts on why God doesn't provide any proof of his realness/existence, instead relying on faith?

Surely, this all grand being, that created everything that is (even the things we don't know about which requires faith to believe) can provide proof* that everyone can see and accept that he's real.
Yet this hasn't happened. Instead, he dangles ambiguous tidbits in front of some, tells others to witness and spread the word, and requires faith (sometimes enormous leaps of faith) to accept him
Why is that?

* That's testable, verifiable by scientific mean and readily available to everyone

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by Menotu]

If you had proof of God you would not have free will to chose. God wants to win you to Him through love.

[Diagoras]

[Replying to post 2 by Wootah]

If biblical tales are to be believed, there were tribes who knew such a god existed, but still chose to worship things like calves and snakes. That suggests that they had free will, which disproves your claim.

[SallyF]

The simple, straightforward answer is:

No one's version of "God" is EVER shown to be anything other than imaginary.

Simple.

[1213]

Thoughts on why God doesn't provide any proof of his realness/existence, instead relying on faith?

I think the existence of this world and the Bible are proof for God. But I understand it is not enough for atheists. The reason why I believe God doesn’t offer something more is that it would not make any good difference. I believe those who reject God, reject Him because they don’t like Him. It has really nothing to do with proofs.

In Bible the important thing is that one would be righteous and love others and the judgment is this:

This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God."
John 3:19-21

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Knowing that God exists doesn’t make people righteous, that is why I think it is not necessary to make it clearer. What do you think, would you become righteous, if God would make His existence absolutely clear to you?

[Overcomer]

It isn't about proof. It's about evidence. What kind of evidence and how much of it one expects and needs differs from individual to individual. There is a great deal of evidence for the existence of God as well as for the historicity of Jesus and the reliability of the Bible. However, some people say it isn't enough. That's their prerogative.

When it gets right down to it, it isn't really about evidence or a lack of it, it's about sin, that is, whether we recognize we have sins or not and whether we recognize that only Jesus can do anything about it when we do acknowledge that truth. Consider this:

"The fool says in his heart, there is no God" (Psalm 14:1).

The word "fool" does not simply refer to one's lack of wisdom, but to one's moral depravity.

And, as 1213 noted, John put it this way:

"This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil" (John 3:19).

And, as I have stated elsewhere, the Christian faith is evidence-based, not blind.

Lastly, I question the need for scientific, verifiable proof (although there is such evidence when you consider the cosmological and teleological arguments for the existence of God). I have heard people make the statement that we can only know things are true, if, as you put it, Menotu, they are verifiable using scientific means. But that statement itself can't be tested or proved scientifically yet the people who make it believe it to be true. I find that ironic to say the least.

[Tcg]

When it gets right down to it, it isn't really about evidence or a lack of it, it's about sin, that is, whether we recognize we have sins or not and whether we recognize that only Jesus can do anything about it when we do acknowledge that truth.

It is absolutely about the deficiency of the evidence. It is nothing but an ad hominem, one we see again and again, to claim that those who recognize the weakness of the evidence are deficient.

It is not a moral issue, but rather an issue with what is claimed to be supporting evidence.


Tcg

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 1 by Menotu]

If you had proof of God you would not have free will to chose. God wants to win you to Him through love.

Lucifer had the free will to chose to rebel when he fully knew the god of the Bible.
Therefore it can be done according to your source.

It's just a religious explination given to those who already believe to help justify the inaction of the gods. When examined, we see the fault in the claim.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Menotu]

If you had proof of God you would not have free will to chose. God wants to win you to Him through love.

Lucifer had the free will to chose to rebel when he fully knew the god of the Bible.
Therefore it can be done according to your source.

It's just a religious explination given to those who already believe to help justify the inaction of the gods. When examined, we see the fault in the claim.

Romans 1 also presents a problem with this theory. According to the following, God has provided proof:

• 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
  
  <bolding mine>

If it is true that providing proof would violate free will, then according to this passage, that is exactly what God has done.


Tcg

[polonius]

Thoughts on why God doesn't provide any proof of his realness/existence, instead relying on faith?

I think the existence of this world and the Bible are proof for God. But I understand it is not enough for atheists. The reason why I believe God doesn’t offer something more is that it would not make any good difference. I believe those who reject God, reject Him because they don’t like Him. It has really nothing to do with proofs.

In Bible the important thing is that one would be righteous and love others and the judgment is this:

This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God."
John 3:19-21

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Knowing that God exists doesn’t make people righteous, that is why I think it is not necessary to make it clearer. What do you think, would you become righteous, if God would make His existence absolutely clear to you?

RESPONSE: Do you really believe everything you read in the Bible?

What about Jesus being born twice, once in King Herod's reign (died in 4 B.C.) see Matthew's gospel, and was born a second time during the 6 AD Judean census, read Luke's gospel. Thus Jesus 1 and Jesus 2 have at least a ten year age difference.