Faith and not proof

[Menotu]

Thoughts on why God doesn't provide any proof of his realness/existence, instead relying on faith?

Surely, this all grand being, that created everything that is (even the things we don't know about which requires faith to believe) can provide proof* that everyone can see and accept that he's real.
Yet this hasn't happened. Instead, he dangles ambiguous tidbits in front of some, tells others to witness and spread the word, and requires faith (sometimes enormous leaps of faith) to accept him
Why is that?

* That's testable, verifiable by scientific mean and readily available to everyone

[AgnosticBoy]

Thoughts on why God doesn't provide any proof of his realness/existence, instead relying on faith?

Surely, this all grand being, that created everything that is (even the things we don't know about which requires faith to believe) can provide proof* that everyone can see and accept that he's real.
Yet this hasn't happened. Instead, he dangles ambiguous tidbits in front of some, tells others to witness and spread the word, and requires faith (sometimes enormous leaps of faith) to accept him
Why is that?

* That's testable, verifiable by scientific mean and readily available to everyone

Perhaps God wants a "believer" instead of just a belief that he exists. A critic might then say that God could make us believers by first establishing very clearly that he exists. But then I can question that by bringing up examples from the OT and how the Jews seemingly took his existence for granted. Even if the OT stories are all fiction, I still consider it a real possibility that taking God for granted could happen. I also think the fact that even many Christians aren't loyal to God, despite believing in his existence, shows that "belief" doesn't necessarily translate into a "believer".

The only other option then is to use faith. Although, I admit that I don't see a strong reason to agree with even that process unless someone can tell me the benefit of using faith over proof, assuming there is a benefit to faith.

[1213]

… Even if the Bible did not exist, the notion that it is good to love others would still be there…

Yes, Bible is a book that contains what God and Jesus have declared. It is possible that those declarations would exist even without them written in the book. But I don’t believe people would have the teachings without God. I don’t think people would love like said in the Bible, without God.

… The Bible could really be reduced to one page that simply says "Every day try not to be a ****".

Bible reduces what is important to this:

… Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

The rest of it just helps to understand why.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 2 by Wootah]

If you had proof of God you would not have free will to chose.

I find this idea not only insulting but also dishonest as well as ludicrous. Why does knowing something prohibit any free will?

God wants to win you to Him through love.

Then his attempts are an epic fail.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 5 by 1213]

I believe God doesn’t offer something more is that it would not make any good difference.

Thanks for your reply. Rather or not it makes a difference, ultimately, is immaterial. Not offering is like saying 'Well, I knew you'd burn your hand, so I didn't tell you the stove is hot because I knew you'd still burn your hand. I guess I don't love you enough to allow you to make an informed decision.'

Knowing that God exists doesn’t make people righteous, that is why I think it is not necessary to make it clearer.

This doesn't seem like it's free will at play. Why not provide the end user with all the available info they need?
Seems like God is into playing games with his 'loved' people. Which is pretty sick IMO

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 6 by Overcomer]

It isn't about proof.

It is about proof. Actual, verifiable proof. Not 'well maybe' evidence.
That's making excuses for God. Which is, to be honest, vile.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 24 by Menotu]

This doesn't seem like it's free will at play. Why not provide the end user with all the available info they need?

Precisely. How can we make an informed decision without all the facts clearly laid out before us? We are still free to make a choice in the end.

[1213]

… Not offering is like saying 'Well, I knew you'd burn your hand, so I didn't tell you the stove is hot because I knew you'd still burn your hand. I guess I don't love you enough to allow you to make an informed decision.'

But, if you still would burn your hand, what good it would be to have the information?

I think the situation is not the same. We have the information what we should do and what we should not do.

Knowing that God exists doesn’t make people righteous, that is why I think it is not necessary to make it clearer.

This doesn't seem like it's free will at play. Why not provide the end user with all the available info they need?

Would you do something differently, if you would know God is real? Would you be righteous then? Why not now?

For what decision you need the knowledge that God is real? You can’t love others, if you don’t know God is real? Would you stop murdering only if God is real?

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 27 by 1213]

But, if you still would burn your hand, what good it would be to have the information?

Why would expect to burn your hand? Don't you listen?

We have the information what we should do and what we should not do.

Information can be compromised, which is what the bible is. Yet all powerful, all knowing God is absent when providing proof - he simply sits back and let's belief and faith rule the day.
That's fine for some
Others demand more
Which God isn't providing.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 27 by 1213]

Would you do something differently, if you would know God is real?

Some things yes. Other things no.

Would you be righteous then?

Why would I want to be righteous? I want to know, not appease something else. This is about knowing, not about succumbing to pressure to be something some other things wants me to be.

Why not now?

Why at all?

For what decision you need the knowledge that God is real?

Why do you think a decision is needed to be made?

You can’t love others, if you don’t know God is real?

That's one of the most insulting things to say. Why can't one love others if God is or is not real.

Would you stop murdering only if God is real?

Then this is brought out. Why do so many believers have to go to the extreme?!? This isn't about extremes, it's about knowledge and why God isn't providing it, instead relying on faith, tests and 'well maybe's'.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 27 by 1213]

Would you do something differently, if you would know God is real? Would you be righteous then? Why not now?

Your God behaves exactly as if he isn't really there so I can't see how I would change in any way knowing that he is really there. I am righteous now and I don't believe that there are any gods.

For what decision you need the knowledge that God is real?

We need the knowledge that a God is real so that the entire population of Earth can get over the fighting and conflict that has arisen because of all the different gods that people believe in right now.

You can’t love others, if you don’t know God is real? Would you stop murdering only if God is real?

I find those questions disturbing as well as absurd. Love is a natural emotion and has nothing to do with the existence of God or belief in gods. Yahweh has shown himself to be willing to kill people or order them to be killed at the drop of a hat. I do not murder, nor do I have an suppressed urges to murder. I have empathy for my fellow humans. God has nothing to do with it.