A belief of the Jehovah Witnesses?

[polonius]

Garbe, Detlef (2008). Between Resistance and Martyrdom: Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich. University of Wisconsin Press. pp. 37, 38. ISBN 0-299-20794-3.

" In their opinion, only people who have accepted Jehovah and subsequently submit to his requirements will survive Armageddon and enter into the New World ... Jehovah's Witnesses also believe that a person confessing to worship God has to be associated with the true Christian denomination. Since they claim to be the only true religious denomination, they also claim to have the only means for salvation."

Is this a belief that all Jehovah Witnesses hold?

[JehovahsWitness]

So what is the verdict on someone who believes in the deity of Christ? Is it merely just an incorrect interpretation or does it have more theological significance?

I dont know what you mean by "theological significance" Jehovah Witnesses do not believe Jesus is Almighty God and hold that those that do are in error. Our job is simply to draw this to people's attention, the fate (the "verdict" ) of those that persist on such erroneous thinking is in Gods hands.

Polytheism/idolatry = Ascribing full Divinity to a creature or entity other than God-Almighty. Jesus Christ was not God-Almighty according to the JW's/Unitarians. So would that not make the Trinitarians who falsely deified Jesus idolators?

I supoose that would depend on what "full divinity" means. . I dont recall any statement in any of our literature calling trinitarians idolators but that's not to say they havent. At least in their eyes, if they worship Jesus as Almighty God they hold that they are not worshipping someone other than Almighty God, because they believe Jesus is Almighty God

However its classified we believe it's inaccurate (and not a little confusing)


JW

[tam]

Peace to you,

So may I ask who the WTBTS teaches makes up the144 000 (today) from anyone other than JW's? May I also ask who they teach make up the great crowd mentioned in the Grand Climax, other than JW's?
The

144 000: spirit anointed born again Christians

great crowd Armageddon survivors that acknowledge Jehovah and Jesus saved them

All of Jehovahs Witnesses entertain the hope of being in one group. Nobody can say if someone is born again or not except that person. We trust those among us that claim to be are not lying but if they are God will judge them not I or any other Witness.

I don't have a hope of going to heaven , I hope to be an Armageddon survivor. I cannot say if I will be or not but I'm hoping to be!! If I cannot guarantee my being in that crowd I certainly cannot speak about someone else (Witness or non-Witnesses) We leave such decisions in Gods capable hands.

I was not asking about you. I was asking about the teachings of the WTBTS, especially in light of what is written (from them). Your responses above only quote a portion of what is said. The third paragraph I quoted (in post 35) demonstrates their teaching that the great crowd is part of the jw organization.

Do you mind?

Do I mind what?

You asked me to back up what I said. I posted material from your organization's writings that support what I said (and there is more than just those couple links).




Peace again to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

I was not asking about you. I was asking about the teachings of the WTBTS, especially in light of what is written (from them).

Jehovahs Witnesses teach the following

144 000: spirit anointed born again Christians

great crowd Armageddon survivors that acknowledge Jehovah and Jesus saved them

JW

[onewithhim]

Garbe, Detlef (2008). Between Resistance and Martyrdom: Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich. University of Wisconsin Press. pp. 37, 38. ISBN 0-299-20794-3.

" In their opinion, only people who have accepted Jehovah and subsequently submit to his requirements will survive Armageddon and enter into the New World ... Jehovah's Witnesses also believe that a person confessing to worship God has to be associated with the true Christian denomination. Since they claim to be the only true religious denomination, they also claim to have the only means for salvation."

Is this a belief that all Jehovah Witnesses hold?

Yes. When people have been presented with the facts about the God of the Bible, Jehovah, and they know His requirements, if this person rejects that, he is rejecting the God of the universe and our Creator. Anyone who rejects Him is like grass that has withered away. It is also true that those who have not heard will not necessarily be denied access to the new system of things. Jehovah is merciful and just. I believe that no one will die who hasn't heard the Truth.

Jehovah's organization is conducted the same way that the Christian congregation was conducted in the early first century, by Apostles in Jerusalem. No true Christian rejected the Apostles' direction. Why would we refuse to associate ourselves with Jehovah's only true religious organization?

Jehovah is God and He says that Jesus is the means of our salvation. Jesus himself said that that is the truth. "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) We believe that Jesus is the head of our organization, so of course we would believe that JWs have the the only means of salvation.

After the Millennial Reign of Christ, everyone will know Jehovah and will either choose to love Him and worship Him or choose to die with Satan.


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[Matthew S Islam]

So what is the verdict on someone who believes in the deity of Christ? Is it merely just an incorrect interpretation or does it have more theological significance?

Polytheism/idolatry = Ascribing full Divinity to a creature or entity other than God-Almighty. Jesus Christ was not God-Almighty according to the JW's/Unitarians. So would that not make the Trinitarians who falsely deified Jesus idolators?

I dont know what you mean by "theological significance" Jehovah Witnesses do not believe Jesus is Almighty God and those that do are in error. Our job is simply to draw this to people's attention, the fate (the "verdict" ) of those that persist on such erroneous thinking is in Gods hands.


JW

I honestly find this strange. Are you 100% sure the Jehovah's Witnesses/non-Trinitarians don't consider it polytheism and idolatry? I mean do they not reference the monotheistic pasages in the OT as their foundational proof against the Trinity/deity of Christ?

God throughout the OT warns and punishes the Isrealites for taking false gods besides Him. According to the JWs/unitarians the Trinitarians have falesly taken Jesus as God. How is it possible for you to reject his deity without labelling those who believe in it as idolators/polytheists?

[onewithhim]

One stopped at my door and said they were one of the 144,000 sealed in Revelation 7:4

I ask them for their genealogy to prove such relation they left

No one can prove it by their physical geneology. It is a relationship between Jehovah and the person involved. Jehovah's Spirit gives a person the assurance that they are anointed. They just know that they will be in heaven, ruling with Christ.

The brother at your door was undoubtedly Jesus' anointed brother. They left because you were trying to belittle them. The anointed, as well as those with the earthly hope, are out there trying to find people who want to know the truth, not denigrate them.



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[onewithhim]

I looked on the JW Watchtower Online site and found this:

Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock� Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established.

From https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/201 ... tion&p=par

This indicates that they believe one has to be a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses (which they regard as God's only true organization on earth) to be saved.

However, the Bible says this about salvation:

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (Rom. 10:9-10).

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast (Eph. 2:8-9).

Membership in a church doesn't save. Jesus saves and we receive his gift of salvation through faith, not by belonging to a man-made organization.

Respecting Jehovah's organization---both heavenly and earthly---IS essential for ultimate salvation. I am talking about the FINAL salvation that all mankind will be subject to achieving, through Christ. This is AFTER the Thousand-Year Reign of Christ and his 144,000 co-rulers. It is true that you will be saved if you CONTINUE to follow Jesus as your Lord, and CONTINUE to believe and CARE that God raised him from the dead, you will of course be saved. Salvation is a continuous thing. Every true Christian is "saved" today. Next month I might decide that I don't want to serve God anymore. I won't be saved at that point.


"Indeed, you who were once alienated and enemies because your minds were on the works that were wicked, he has now reconciled by means of that one's fleshly body through his death, in order to present you holy and unblemished and open to no accusation before him---provided, of course, that you CONTINUE in the faith, established on the foundation and steadfast, not being SHIFTED AWAY from the hope of that good news that you heard and that was preached in all creation under heaven." (Colossians 1:21-23)


So just believing won't save a person. They have to continue to follow Christ. And if he is directing the WTS, why would we reject that organization? Christ is the only means of salvation. He is the head of our organization. If we reject it, aren't we rejecting Christ's guidance?



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[onewithhim]

Peace to you,

Not a JW here, but I think the misunderstanding (or obfuscation) is coming in under the word 'saved'.


1 - The WTS teaches that at the time of Armageddon (which the WTS teaches can occur any time now), all non-JW's who are alive on the earth (with some possible exceptions) will be killed. In order to survive Armageddon, one has to be a JW (in good standing). Again, with some possible exceptions.



2 - The WTS also teaches that everyone who has died before Armageddon occurs, will be resurrected. These ones get a second chance, so to speak, to live on the earth and not die.


The WTS teaching from when I did a bible study with them (more than a decade ago), was that the people who die at/during Armageddon do not get a resurrection (theirs is a permanent death).





Hope that makes it more clear.


Peace again to you!

Number one is not true. There are many who have not heard the Truth, and those people will not die at Armageddon. It is the heart condition that Jehovah looks at. People who don't have a clue about the Truth will have a chance to learn, during Christ's Millennial Rule.



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[JehovahsWitness]

Are you 100% sure the Jehovah's Witnesses/non-Trinitarians don't consider it polytheism and idolatry?

No not really. The thjng is, we don't spend a lot of time classifying what is false, we mostly just on focus and what is true. Classifying trinitarians as polytheists or idolators is not a preoccupation of ours. That Jesus is not Almighty God nor is He equal in power or position to The Father and the holy spirit is not a person is enough for us to dismiss the entire notion.

I mean do they not reference the monotheistic pasages in the OT as their foundational proof against the Trinity/deity of Christ?

We believe the foundational proof against the Trinity/deity of Christ lies in the biblical truths above, not in finding the right description of their error. Here's our library, if you want to know how we have referred to trinitariansm over the years you can search it. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e

I personally couldn't care less about "the fifty shades of trinitarianism" or what its called.


JW

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 6 by JehovahsWitness]

♦ANSWER No . Jehovahs Witnesses believe many millions of people that held to non-biblical beliefs will be given a ressurection to a paradise earth on this planet (after the destruction of the wicked ) and be afforted the opportunity to learn the truth about God and Jesus.

In that case what is the point of being a Jehovah's Witness?

Wanting to know and obey God and wanting have a close personal relationship with him. Wanting to please him and make Him happy.

PROVERBS 27:11

Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice
So that I can make a reply to him who taunts me.

JW

So, no reason at all. You don't have to be a Jehovah's Witness for any of that.

No reason? Well, DO YOU know Jehovah and want to please Him? If you do, then certainly you would want to be associated with His congregation, wouldn't you?



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