What can we gather from Genesis?

[marco]

Can we extract anything good from the Genesis account of creation? God apparently told Adam, the first human: "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die." He didn't say why he had planted poisonous berries in a perfect orchard. Adam seems to have lived on, having escaped the dangerous garden.


We can extract beautiful meanings from the tales of Hans Andersen, such as the Little Mermaid who learns that pleasure comes at a great price. From the story of Orpheus and Eurydice in Greek mythology we can understand that a man can enter his dark psyche to find something precious, only to have it snatched away.


Can we learn anything useful from the Genesis creation story?

If we accept the existence of Neanderthal man do we simply throw Genesis in the bucket?

[Thomas123]

Is it worth considering that the serpent /evil fruit thing, is a close variant of the above simile?

There is no limit to the ways we can expand on the simplistic and turn it into a Platonic debate. Humpty Dumpty is a metaphor for careless risk taking; Catullus wrote a poem about his girlfriend's pet sparrow, but modern minds have found a cheeky metaphor for that dead bird.

And yes, the nonsense that fills the Old Testament lends itself to wise metaphorical interpretation, but why bother? The Bible offers folk God, albeit a brutal thing, and that's its whole point. We should leave God alone between the Tigris and Euphrates and seek our wisdom elsewhere. But if we want to take the Bible as a literature from a primitive past, and admire it as we might the Book of the Dead, then all is well. For my part I prefer classical mythology and we can play philosopher and psychologist there too.

I think that you refute my positions with wonderful knowledge that can only enhance people's views on these matters. I think I get your ' Dead Parrot' mention but perhaps it is something else. Always be wary of Greeks bearing gifts! 😲
You think that this is bath water that contains no baby, so why bother, and chuck it out! I disagree and as you beautifully state, 'there's the rub'.

Humans should be looking for reference and purpose in their individual and collective existences and the Old Testament story of Genesis has merit within it in this regard.

[marco]

You think that this is bath water that contains no baby, so why bother, and chuck it out! I disagree and as you beautifully state, 'there's the rub'.

Humans should be looking for reference and purpose in their individual and collective existences and the Old Testament story of Genesis has merit within it in this regard.

I'm not suggesting burning bibles. There are beautiful passages, my favourite being:

"The beauty of Israel is slain upon thy high places: how are the mighty fallen!
1:20 Tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the streets of Askelon; lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice, lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph.
1:21 Ye mountains of Gilboa, let there be no dew, neither let there be rain, upon you, nor fields of offerings: for there the shield of the mighty is vilely cast away, the shield of Saul, as though he had not been anointed with oil.

No one who could write this is without a most noble soul. If we visited the bible to admire such writing we would have enjoyment rather than threats. But behind the curtain is Yahweh and there's the rub, as you say, or as did Hamlet.

I find purpose and meaning in literature: Sydney Carton's final speech - "It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known" for me equals the parables. Humans, not angels, sow the seeds of generosity, inspiration, courage and love. In the OT that you recommend we find somebody willing to murder his son; some poor woman killed for curiosity; some laughing youths murdered because they jested and favouritism was shown in a 40 year killing trek at the end of which the faithful leader was denied his dream. The book Carve her Name with Pride about the nurse who gave her life is indeed inspirational. The Bible is not, less so is the Koran, its sister tome. They are extended threats.

[earl]

Thomas McDonald,
Reply to post 47,
There are several things going on in Genesis story.
"East of Eden" My question is where is Eden proper?
All references indicate East of Eden.
Even Cain went East of Eden to find his wife.
Cain was already East of Eden.But yet he left home going into hostile territory.So he needed a tattoo.
Another point from mt post 45
The writers who rewrote their history failed to cover up there was human population earlier than Adam. Serpent was a beast of the field.A beast of the field is no more than another human but not of Adam's blood line.
Continued reading shows Serpent ,which is his name,had family who hated Eve's family and Eve's family likewise to his.
Only man can hate,not animal
Many references in the Bible show beasts of the field doing human things and owning property.The beast of the field is simply a racial slur like gentile (dog)
From this there is two visible races on Earth populating at Adam's time.
But the Jew historians only wanted you to see just one.

[earl]

Also ,
When Cain married whomever East of Eden there became another race .
And when the sons of God came down from heaven and mated with human women there became another race also.

[Zzyzx]

.

When Cain married whomever East of Eden there became another race

Interesting alternative views.

And when the sons of God came down from heaven and mated with human women there became another race also.

Is there verifiable evidence to support this assertion? Or is it just a tale from ancient folklore?

One is entitled to believe whatever they wish; however, when they make a clam in debate they are expected and required to support the claim. "The Bible says so" is NOT sufficient in C&A sub-forum (but may work in church, in TD&D, or in Holy Huddle). We do not preach to the choir here.

[earl]

Zzyzx,
When I ask a Jew who is the first man I get the response Adam.It was their Jew historian ancestors who wrote their holy book.
The material I have stated is all found in the Genesis Text and OT.
What I have presented here is a reply for Thomas D .
It is not about do I believe it but I have shown a hidden story in a story that for centuries has remained covered up.
It's the double story not the believeability of either story.
He might want to engage this material might not.
The debate of this would not be the Genesis story being true or not but the double story which is in plain view of the reader.
If one can read then one can verify a second story in the same text .

[Zzyzx]

.

When I ask a Jew who is the first man I get the response Adam.It was their Jew historian ancestors who wrote their holy book.

Does a Jew identifying Adam as the first man assure that is true?

The material I have stated is all found in the Genesis Text and OT.

Is that assurance of truth and accuracy?


I challenge this statement and ask for verification (“The Bible says so� is not proof of truth in this sub-forum)

And when the sons of God came down from heaven and mated with human women there became another race also.

[earl]

Zzyzx,
As I said the debate of this is not the Genesis story being true or not.

Answer 1 The Jew will have to tell you if he is lying or not,but thats the answer i get,your answer may vary.
Answer2 Is the Accuracy of what anyone says is reliable .Is not Accuracy subjective?As in how accurate are you
Answer3 Sons of God located in Gen.5-6.According to the story it shows human and non human mating,You will have to get a verification from the one who wrote the story.
I have restated parts of a story with no emphasis of it's truth or intent for someone to believe me or it.
So there is nothing to debate here.

[Zzyzx]

.

As I said the debate of this is not the Genesis story being true or not.

On what authority do you decide the scope of this debate? Marco, originator of the thread, set no such limit.

Answer 1 The Jew will have to tell you if he is lying or not,but thats the answer i get,your answer may vary.

Does the opinion of A Jew speak for Judaism and establish whether 'Adam' was 'the first man'? Does the opinion of Judaism assure that 'Adam' was the first man?

Answer2 Is the Accuracy of what anyone says is reliable

Some more than or less than others.

Is not Accuracy subjective?

Everything that goes through a mind is 'subjective'.

Subjective: existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective). www.dictionary.com

Objective: being, or regarded as being, independent of the mind; real; actual
www.collinsdictionary.com

As in how accurate are you

That is a matter of opinion. In this venue, one's crediblity with readers is influenced by or dependent upon the accuracy of their statement and how well they are able to substantiate what they present.

Answer3 Sons of God located in Gen.5-6.According to the story it shows human and non human mating,

Yes, so goes the tale.

You will have to get a verification from the one who wrote the story.

Since the one who wrote the story is unavailable, the truth and accuracy of the story cannot be verified by the originator – or any other means with which I am familiar. If anyone CAN verify the story, they are invited to do so. Until verified, it is of no more credible than tales of Paul Bunyan.

I have restated parts of a story with no emphasis of it's truth or intent for someone to believe me or it.
So there is nothing to debate here.

Opinion noted.

[Thomas123]

[Replying to earl]
earl:
Many references in the Bible show beasts of the field doing human things and owning property.The beast of the field is simply a racial slur like gentile (dog)

I found this interpretation of yours interesting, earl. Can you provide some of the clearest examples of the above type quotes from Genesis Please! Maybe 3 ,if possible!