Kings -- truth or fantasy?

[Zzyzx]

.
Is this a truthful and accurate description of events that actually occurred in the real world?

2 Kings 2 King James Version (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when the Lord would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

2 And Elijah said unto Elisha, Tarry here, I pray thee; for the Lord hath sent me to Bethel. And Elisha said unto him, As the Lord liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel.

3 And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Lord will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

4 And Elijah said unto him, Elisha, tarry here, I pray thee; for the Lord hath sent me to Jericho. And he said, As the Lord liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho.

5 And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Lord will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

6 And Elijah said unto him, Tarry, I pray thee, here; for the Lord hath sent me to Jordan. And he said, As the Lord liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. And they two went on.

7 And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.

8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.

9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.

13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;

14 And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the Lord God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.

15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

16 And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the Lord hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send.

17 And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.

18 And when they came again to him, (for he tarried at Jericho,) he said unto them, Did I not say unto you, Go not?

19 And the men of the city said unto Elisha, Behold, I pray thee, the situation of this city is pleasant, as my lord seeth: but the water is naught, and the ground barren.

20 And he said, Bring me a new cruse, and put salt therein. And they brought it to him.

21 And he went forth unto the spring of the waters, and cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith the Lord, I have healed these waters; there shall not be from thence any more death or barren land.

22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake.

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.

Bold added

Question for debate: (again) Is this a truthful and accurate description of events that actually occurred in the real world?

[Clownboat]

Today we know what is above the clouds ...{snip}.

No, we know what we can detect above the clouds, we know we have thus found nothing above the clouds.... and we believe (depending on ones worldview) that what we can detect is all there can be. However, without presupposing the truth of naturalism, what we as humans know may well be unrealated to what is, in reality, there.

We thus do well not to confuse what we have detected and believe, with absolute truth, least we accidentally declare ourselves the very thing atheists do not believe exists.





JW

Readers...
We cannot know that there are no magic unicorns above the clouds because perhaps we cannot detect them.
Therefore, unicorn magic is an explanation.

We cannot know that there are no magic leprechans above the clouds because perhaps we cannot detect them.
Therefore, leprechan magic is an explanation.

We cannot know that there are no aliens above the clouds...
We cannot know that there are no gods above the clouds... but I'm going to pretend that I know (I can even tell you his name and desires) what I don't know and feel justified.

Arguments from ignorance.

I would imagine it is empowering for some to pretend to have knowledge that escapes the rest of humanity. Suddenly they feel like they're the experts, and that is a good feeling. Why wouldn't some want to maintain such a feeling?

As far as the OP goes, the story does not read as something that is a truthful and accurate description of events that actually occurred in the real world. Religious claims and beliefs such as these are not unique. It would be great if religious people acknowledged this. Why believe in a firey chariot but not a flying horse for Mohammed? I see no logic taking place.

[JehovahsWitness]

My point is that you evidently prefer the Theist bias. How much more clearly can that be stated?

So my point was when athiestic bias is removed there is nothing implausible about any of the accounts.

I make no mention of myself -- and have never claimed to be free of bias.

You inability to analyse a text without removing your comfirmation bias is duly noted. In the absence of proof one way or the other one at the very least does well to keep an open mind. Entirely possible but for those chocking on their own radical atheism, anti- god bias and inability to accept there may well be more to reality than our limited sphere of experience.


Have a most excellent and healthful day,







JW

[amortalman]

[Replying to post 12 by JehovahsWitness]

JW wrote:

"So my point was when athiestic bias is removed there is nothing implausible about any of the accounts."

Bias: noun
1.prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

According to the definition of bias would it be correct to say that you believe atheists are showing prejudice when they bring into question unsubstantiated written events that violate the laws of physics?

Is it also your view that it is unfair of someone to disbelieve that chariots of fire pulled by horses of fire swooped down and took someone into the sky?

[Zzyzx]

.

My point is that you evidently prefer the Theist bias. How much more clearly can that be stated?

So my point was when athiestic bias is removed there is nothing implausible about any of the accounts.

Of course, if everyone would just believe in invisible, undetectable 'gods', they could believe all sorts of nonsense.

I make no mention of myself -- and have never claimed to be free of bias.

You inability to analyse a text without removing your comfirmation bias is duly noted.

If I would only believe in 'gods' everything would be wonderful. Right? I could tell imaginary tales about flaming chariots, waters parting, bears mauling children -- and pretend it was rational.

In the absence of proof one way or the other one at the very least does well to keep an open mind.

Yes, let's keep an open mind about Joe flying by flapping his arms " and about waters parting, bears mauling 42 children, flaming chariots and horses, worldwide flood, virgin birth, reanimation, etc, etc.

Entirely possible but for those chocking on their own radical atheism, anti- god bias and inability to accept there may well be more to reality than our limited sphere of experience.

Those who claim knowledge of 'reality' 'beyond our limited sphere of experience' are challenged to demonstrate that their 'knowledge' is more than imagination.

Have a most excellent and healthful day,

Thanks, I'm having an enjoyable day helping Theists demonstrate the defects in their claims and stories.