Even if there is a god, then objective morals do not exist

[Willum]

Even if there is a god, then objective morals still do not exist.

So a very simple statement, self-explanatory, I think.

Can anyone suggest why even an all-powerful god should be considered a source of morality? That any God isn't just the proverbial 800 pound gorilla with an opinion?
Other than it can beat everybody up?
Certainly not some alleged god that wrote a book claiming it was so, right?

Even so, my own humanistic morality see and acknowledges the evil of many, particularly the Abrahamic deity, and as I am fond of saying, I would rather burn in Hell with a unrepentant Gandhi, then party in Heaven with a redeemed Hitler.

And if might doesn't make right, if a god's opinion does not constitute a moral absolute, what does?

[Willum]

[Replying to Thomas Mc Donald]

Great.
So again, in the context of the post.
It has to do with God being the origin, not pigeons.
If it isnt too much trouble to discuss the post in the context of the post?

[Thomas123]

[Replying to post 30 by William]

You are only naked if you or others think you are. When being clothed was a non event, you should not even have the consideration of being less than adequately covered.
The ambition to explore and escape limitations prompted an awareness of inadequacy. Clothes opened alot of psychological doors as well, all initiated by the beguiling ways of the snake. As good a way as any. Perhaps clothes were prompted by a cutting easterly breeze, who knows?

[William]

[Replying to post 30 by William]

You are only naked if you or others think you are. When being clothed was a non event, you should not even have the consideration of being less than adequately covered.
The ambition to explore and escape limitations prompted an awareness of inadequacy. Clothes opened alot of psychological doors as well, all initiated by the beguiling ways of the snake. As good a way as any. Perhaps clothes were prompted by a cutting easterly breeze, who knows?

William: Not the only point I was focused upon.

Go well.

[Thomas123]

Genesis 3
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Surely the Ark of the Old Testament tells us in a very direct way that we cannot exist alone.

Consider the moral remits of all living things and the complexities and precisions that are contained within their interactions. Then consider the infrastructural space in which this ongoing action occurs and the physical laws that dictate the exact nature of life.
Consider the inseparability of both the action and the space . Now consider a cohesion in the cosmos in which this earth could logically occur and then you are moving towards an omnipotent entity, and towards God, an objective morality and the only resource compatible with our purpose if we learn to use it for our benefit.

Within God we can evolve to maximise the progression of our own human moral agenda. It hasn't rained for the forty days of Coronavirus in my area. I have it on good authority that Yahweh will not use flooding again, but I am seriously considering investing in a few camels! What is causing this bewildering weather in April.!

[Purple Knight]

Might Makes Right: Or, as you might have it, 900 pound gorilla theory. According to this theory, we should do what gods tell us to because otherwise they may punish us.

I don't think that's the theory. I think the theory goes that God is moral by definition, so that whatever it does is automatically moral, and obeying it is almost as good.

Any all-powerful entity could do this, because it can do anything, including make itself moral by definition.

The only way it couldn't would be if that was somehow a contradiction, which would require some sort of pre-existing morality.

[Thomas123]

The only gorilla in this room is within us, because of our lineage. Alpha male considerations regarding Yahweh, reflect a density of thought that is consistent with the slowly evolving primate. Our actions have consequences but we should strive within a context of communal well being, rather than scheme furtively under shade. In the gorilla analogy, Yahweh could only be the rain and our ambitious fumblings would be directed by our "Gorilla". How much nonsense in human history has been justified under the guise of contrived necessity?
Regardless of our ways,...

If you mess up within objective morality you will pick up the bill, simple as.
Cut all the trees and the rain will go elsewhere.

You will reap what you sow! What ever that is!

[Thomas123]

This is what greeted me this morning....contrived necessity.

What do yo think? Does it work? Yes or No!

Why did the old world countries of Europe, break their necks to plunder the resources of the New World. Was it to feed their people!

Objective morality is about decision making at all levels.

[Bust Nak]

Simple physical cause and effect dynamics. Many people regard subjective morality for the human as a process for proceeding as a human , both individually and collectively. I engaged with Zzyzx, earlier in the thread, in an attempt to isolate components of human subjective morality. It's exact composition is vague and I suggested that it should be considered with reference to the purpose component within it.
Why are we/me/you/ doing what we are doing. The questions were part of a subjective process that can only achieve actual answers by an accurate assessment of the actuality of the environment in which we attempt to achieve our purpose...

Our purpose, that's not external; cause and effect as in the consequences for us, that's not external; success and fail for our species, that's not external. What I see here is an attempt at passing human subjective opinion off as objective truth.

[Willum]

Can anyone suggest why even an all-powerful god should be considered a source of morality? That any God isn't just the proverbial 800 pound gorilla with an opinion?

So THIS is more or less the part of the post you should focus on.
I know quoting out of context allows one to avoid unpleasant realities... but if you are not going to address the post, or even if all you do is misquote the Bible, then what are you, really?

[Thomas123]

Bust Nak :Our purpose, that's not external; cause and effect as in the consequences for us, that's not external; success and fail for our species, that's not external. What I see here is an attempt at passing human subjective opinion off as objective truth.

Thomas:

Definitely not

To my mind objective morality constrains our subjective capacities within its norms, as distinct from us being subjectively human and limited in what we can do. I am like an atheist without a proviso, here. We do the best we can, and no more while objective morality outcomes are impartial and complete.

We want to stop Coronavirus. We can't! It's not us that are bad it's the virus that is good. Viruses live in humans Jumping up and down ,still only offers us a damage limitation agenda, against them. The virus is surely external? It attacks other living species if it can. We are irrelevant to it except for our host function.

Surely ,we cannot contextualize everything with reference to ourselves. Is there no moral equation without us in it. Surely not! What about an uninhabited island. Is that a happening place for moral agendas?