Are agnostics more reasonable than atheists?

Post by **otseng** » Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:06 am

AgnosticBoy wrote: I'll go ahead and say because of this the agnostic would be more reasonable than an atheist, in the same way atheists think they are more reasonable than Christians. The reason for this is not because of agnostics being all-knowing or arrogant, but rather it's because the PRINCIPLE that agnostics live by. Again, the principle of applying logic and evidence standard to ALL areas would mean that we use REASON more than the atheists that only applies it to matters of religion.

For debate:
Are agnostics more reasonable than atheists?

AgnosticBoy · Post by **AgnosticBoy** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:18 pm

[Replying to post 90 by Bust Nak

What you're saying now is irrelevant because I told you my current and only position. The economy can be opened while keeping covid-19 deaths low. Even if you were successful in showing that I had a belief on the matter, then i would weed it out. So the end I would be back to no belief.

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:27 am

AgnosticBoy wrote: What you're saying now is irrelevant because I told you my current and only position. The economy can be opened while keeping covid-19 deaths low.

Is "current and only position" the same thing as "current and only view?" Or the subset of views that you are willing to defend in this thread?

I ask because you still haven't given a straight answer yet: do you hold the view that we should keep the economy opened while keeping covid-19 deaths low? While we are here, let me just double check that you still hold the view that the economy should be kept opened if the goal is to have a good economy?

AgnosticBoy · Post by **AgnosticBoy** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:42 am

Bust Nak wrote:
AgnosticBoy wrote: What you're saying now is irrelevant because I told you my current and only position. The economy can be opened while keeping covid-19 deaths low.
Is "current and only position" the same thing as "current and only view?" Or the subset of views that you are willing to defend in this thread?

I ask because you still haven't given a straight answer yet: do you hold the view that we should keep the economy opened while keeping covid-19 deaths low? While we are here, let me just double check that you still hold the view that the economy should be kept opened if the goal is to have a good economy?

Actually, I gave you a straight answer. It seems that you are obsessing over trying to find a belief. For instance, in my very last post I told you my current and only view on the matter but yet again you are asking me if I have another view. This is becoming more and more apparent that you are just misrepresenting my views at this point.

Like I said before, even if I had a belief, or anyone else saw I had one, then I have no problems weeding it out. So in the end I would be left with no beliefs again.

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:27 am

AgnosticBoy wrote: Actually, I gave you a straight answer. It seems that you are obsessing over trying to find a belief.

Well, that's then whole point of this thread, isn't it?

For instance, in my very last post I told you my current and only view on the matter...

No you didn't, the record will show that you've told me your current and only position. Which is what prompted me to ask you if you meant the same thing as view.

but yet again you are asking me if I have another view.

Yes, because you stated in the thread, many views, or many parts of one view, or whatever you want to call it, I never quite figured out what you think it is, other than it's not a belief. I want to know why your reason for the discrepancy or why you no longer wishes to discuss the matter.

This is becoming more and more apparent that you are just misrepresenting my views at this point.

Evidence says otherwise, I have your post history to back up my claims. Here are three posts where you spoke of your view that the economy should be opened. Plus there are plenty more examples where I questioned you on that and you responded by saying it's not a belief, as opposed to saying you don't hold that view. So has changed since then?

Like I said before, even if I had a belief, or anyone else saw I had one, then I have no problems weeding it out. So in the end I would be left with no beliefs again.

Hmm, maybe your refusal to discuss the matter and excluding it from your" current and only view on the matter," is an example of you putting this in practice? Was it your attempt at weeding that particular belief out?

AgnosticBoy · Post by **AgnosticBoy** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:30 am

Bust Nak wrote:
Yes, because you stated in the thread, many views, or many parts of one view, or whatever you want to call it, I never quite figured out what you think it is, other than it's not a belief. I want to know why your reason for the discrepancy or why you no longer wishes to discuss the matter.

Do you understand what CURRENT and ONLY view means?

Do you understand that even if I had a belief in the PAST, that it does NOT apply now? In other words, right now, I have no beliefs on the matter.

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:03 am

AgnosticBoy wrote: Do you understand what CURRENT and ONLY view means?

Sure, it means as of now, you have one view only.

Do you understand that even if I had a belief in the PAST, that it does NOT apply now? In other words, right now, I have no beliefs on the matter.

Sure, but I still want to know what happened to the other views? What changed?

Was it a belief and you've weeded it out? Was it never a belief in the first place and you rejected it for some other reason? Or you still hold that non-belief but it doesn't quality as a view? Or perhaps it's classified as a view on another matter, hence excluded from the view on the matter? Explain yourself.

AgnosticBoy · Post by **AgnosticBoy** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:09 am

Bust Nak wrote:
AgnosticBoy wrote: Do you understand what CURRENT and ONLY view means?
Sure, it means as of now, you have one view only.

Do you understand that even if I had a belief in the PAST, that it does NOT apply now? In other words, right now, I have no beliefs on the matter.
Sure, but I still want to know what happened to the other views? What changed?

Was it a belief and you've weeded it out? Was it never a belief in the first place and you rejected it for some other reason? Or you still hold that non-belief but it doesn't quality as a view? Or perhaps it's classified as a view on another matter, hence excluded from the view on the matter? Explain yourself.

My view is that I have no belief. How does worrying about a view that is NOT my current and only view, prove that I have a belief?

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:53 am

AgnosticBoy wrote: My view is that I have no belief. How does WORRYING about a view that is NOT my current and only view, prove that I have a belief?

Because you never gave me a straight answer as to what happened to "we should open the economy," you just said that it's not your view on the matter. Chances are you are still thinking that we should open the economy, but have classified that thought as something other than "a view" or have classified it as a view on another matter, to avoid discussing it. If you have actually changed your mind from thinking we should do this, to not thinking that we should, I want you to tell me explicitly that you've changed your mind, and I want to know what changed your mind. That's not too much to ask for, is it?

AgnosticBoy · Post by **AgnosticBoy** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:30 am

Bust Nak wrote:
AgnosticBoy wrote: My view is that I have no belief. How does WORRYING about a view that is NOT my current and only view, prove that I have a belief?
Because you never gave me a straight answer as to what happened to "we should open the economy," you just said that it's not your view on the matter. Chances are you are still thinking that we should open the economy, but have classified that thought something other than "a view" or have classified it as a view on another matter, to avoid discussing it. If you have actually changed their mind from thinking we should do this, to not thinking that we should, I want you to tell me explicitly that you've changed your mind, and I want to know what changed your mind. That's not too much to ask for, is it?

Explain why the view that we "should" open the economy is a belief. I've used should in the context of a goal, as in if the goal is to limit damage to the economy, then we should open the economy. And I'm willing to debate you on that one on one with expedited moderator intervention so that I can show you why that's not a belief.

Show me where I've used should without specifying that it was a goal and then I'll acknowledge that that was a mistake. I can show you two or three occasions where I clearly linked it to a goal.

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:42 am

AgnosticBoy wrote: Explain why the view that we "should" open the economy is a belief.

Before I do that, I think you owe it to me to explain what on Earth you think this thought is. I spent the best part of a week challenging you on that, you've told me often enough it's not a belief. Is it a view? If so then why wasn't it included in post#91?

I've used should in the context of a goal, as in if the goal is to limit damage to the economy, then we should open the economy...

Yes, that fine, it's not a moral "should" but a goal-orientated "should." I head you the first time round.