Exposing Trinity

[Naveed]

I had a conversation with a Christian apologist named Brian G. Bloedel. Following are the excerpts from our conversation:

Brian: The issue of the true fundamental nature of Jesus can be determined with these two questions. First, was Mary the physical mother of Jesus? Second, who caused Mary to become pregnant with Jesus? What would be the answers?

Me: Tell me, who created Adam without Father and Mother?

Brian: The Genesis record clearly indicates that God Almighty created Adam from the dust of the earth. Eve was taken directly from the body of Adam. Like the conception of Jesus, this was another case of "God said BE---and it was".

Me: It means God who created Adam without a Father and Mother is able to create Jesus, as well, without a father. If the claim is made that 'Jesus is God's son because he was created without a father, then the same claim befits Adam even more.

Brian: God created Adam (and then made Eve) as single Divine acts. "God said BE---and it was". No angel or human was involved in these acts; only God Almighty. The question about Jesus is: was Mary the physical mother of Jesus? If yes, then there is a second element in the physical birth of Jesus: the physical human Mary. Was Mary the mother of Jesus?

Me: When God can create Adam by saying 'Be', similarly he can create Jesus by saying 'Be'. What's the big deal?

Brian: the Genesis record makes it clear that Adam did not have a 'mother' in the ordinary sense of the word. Adam was created directly by God. So the important question still stands: was Mary the physical mother of Jesus?

Me: Well, Mary was his mother, That's what you want to hear, right? If God sent angel to Mary and he blew breath to Mary and she conceived, What's the big deal for God? You're trying to prove "Third Entity" of Trinity. I won't accept any ridiculous explanations which were initiated by pagan-influenced theologians of 1st century. All I need to know, where God mentioned Trinity in complete details in Jewish Scriptures? Where Jesus talked to Jews about Trinity in full discourse?

Brian: The doctrine of the Trinity was developed by theologians long after the death and resurrection of Jesus. It came about from the study of the passages in Mathew and Luke dealing with the unique conception of Jesus, and the words of Jesus and his followers in passages like Mathew 26:63-65, Mark 14:61-63, Luke 9:18-21 and John 8:54-58 & 10:25-30.

As you observed, he couldn't answer the main question: Why God did not reveal complete details of Trinity to his prophets in Jewish Scriptures? Why Jews were ignorant of this concept?

[SallyF]

As you observed, he couldn't answer the main question: Why God did not reveal complete details of Trinity to his prophets in Jewish Scriptures? Why Jews were ignorant of this concept?

The answer to me is quite simple.

Not a soul that I know of has ever demonstrated that the biblical god Yahweh is anything more than imaginary.

Imaginary beings don't reveal anything to anyone.

People just make stuff up about their imaginary beings.

But my door is WIDE open to evidence of any sort whatsoever that Yahweh (falsely declared by some to be "God" with a capital G) is anything more than human make-believe.

Having said that …

We may consider that the HUMANS who actually wrote the propaganda/"scriptures" concerning the mythological Yahweh god did not imagine that this single, male ethnic deity was really a trinity.

That notion had to be dreamed up by Christian-Judaists who were gaining power and influence in the Roman Empire, and could use that power and influence to promote their leader, Jesus, to higher and higher levels …

Until they could claim that it was JESUS who was behind the Gen 1:1 "In the beginning Jesus created the Heaven and the Earth".





In my view, it all comes down to human political power as whose god gets to be called "God" with a capital G.

But for this New Atheist, one god is as real and as imaginary as another.

Welcome to the forum

[Willum]

[Replying to post 1 by Naveed]

Simple answer.
It wasn't important to him.
I don't describe my arms and legs to you, unless there is something exceptional about them.
As to the paradox, it is resolved by omnipotence.

Some omnipotent creature can be one creature, three creature, 100 creatures, or every atom in the universe, if that is its will.

Of course, when I put it that way, a trinity is pretty silly and irrational anyway, isn't it?
Omnipotence makes our meaning meaningless.

[Charles]

Why God did not reveal complete details of Trinity to his prophets in Jewish Scriptures? Why Jews were ignorant of this concept?

Romans 1:18 on talks repeatedly about how everyone has clearly seen the divinity and power of YHWH because HE made it clear for them by what was made yet the vast majority of the world have repressed that knowledge, that truth, for a lie because they loved sin more.

I believe that YHWH taught the trinity just as openly as HIS deity but by then the prejudice against the idea was firmly caught up in their sinful minds. Even the shema says HE is ONE, echad, which in Gen 2:24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become ONE flesh. a clear case of identifying oneness as a unity. That they chose to accept the wrong meaning is par for the course from a stiff necked people...

[Falling Light 101]

.
We can see that Adam was not conceived by a woman - Adam did not have a Father nor the need for a Father,

ADAM - was the son of no one - ADAM WAS NEVER A SON, - THEREFORE ADAM WAS NOT A SON OF GOD
Sons and daughters of God are only ONLY ALWAYS applied to humans who have been conceived by a WOMAN
The sons of God - referring to the sons and grandsons of Adam and Eve were sons and daughters born from conception and birth - the fruit of the womb.

These are the sons of God. Because they are sons of Adam born as SONS and because they serve God - as - spiritual sons of God

ADAM WAS NOT A SON
Gen 6:2 sons of God saw the beautiful daughters of men
Gen 6:4 sons of God came in unto the daughters of men
Job 1:6 +2:1 sons of God present themselves before the LORD
Job 38:7 sons of God shouted for joy.

God is a SPIRIT - his role as a father - refers to him existing as a spiritual father to humans who are born as earthly HUMAN CHILDREN

THE MANUSCRIPTS NEVER SAY THAT ADAM WAS A SON OF GOD
75 total times - the Trinitarian insert and add / insert the word “ SON “ in Luke Chapter 3:
The word “ son “ does not exist in the original Greek manuscripts in Luke Chapter 3:

This word was added in because Trinitarians believe that a CHILD OF GOD can apply to anything living that is in service to God. Never is Adam called a son of God - this is why In the King James - Luke Chapter 3: puts the word “ SON “ Italics a total of 75 times.

J.K.V. Luk 3:38 Adam, which was { the son } of God - but the manuscripts simply say - Adam Of God
NOT ADAM THE SON OF GOD. The manuscripts simply say { “ OF GOD “ } Mathusala of Enoch of Jared of Maleleel of Cainan of Enos of Seth = of Adam of God.

75 times - Trinitarians insert the word { Son } - son is not in the manuscripts.

Adam is never called the son of God - he was of God.

“ The only and sole reason that Yahashua is called or labeled or existing as - Son Of God –

IS THE SAME EXACT REASON THAT HUMANS { God’s creation } are also Son Of God
He is a son of God - only and purely solely because of his humanity and fleshy nature being born as a son from birth.
Adam was not a son - but Yahashua was the literal son of Mary therefore he was a son of God because he served God and also was conceived by God’s spirit and had no earthly human father.

The Holy Spirit was his Father. He was a son born of a woman - not conceived in heaven.

Trinitarians pretend to correctly translate the Greek manuscripts - pretending that they have manuscripts for their faith.

But what about God - does God BEGET and CONCEIVE and OTHER SPIRIT BEINGS ?
Did God germinate and impregnate another spirit ?
Does God fertilize - inseminate, pollinate and breed or lay eggs with other spirit beings ?
WHO WAS THE OTHER SPIRIT THAT GOD BREED WITH - AND WHAT SPIRIT DID GOD IMPREGNATE IN HEAVEN ?

This would have to mean that God in heaven impregnated another spirit and Yahashua was born as a Spirit baby is heaven and therefore was a son and then grew to be an adult in heaven. THEN IF HE WAS A SON IN HEAVEN - this means that he is not eternal - A SON IS NOT ETERNAL -

Are spirits able to have become fertilized and pregnant ? Can a spirit give birth to a spirit son ?

There is nothing in the Bible concerning a SECOND TRINITY PERSON / with God who is a separate Co - Equal, CO - Eternal and Co - Omnipresent Son Of God who was conceived - IN HEAVEN - before the conception of Mary on earth. God did not have a BABY son named Yahashua who grew from child as little baby son before Mary existed and bear her son


1Jn 5:1 The believer is conceived / begotten of God. = “ GENNAO¯ “ MEANS TO - CONCEIVE - SON OF GOD
1Jn 5:18 whosoever is conceived / begotten of God = GENNAO¯ “ MEANS TO - CONCEIVE - SON OF
1Pe 1:3 hath conceived / begotten us = GENNAO¯ “ MEANS TO - CONCEIVE - SON OF

HOWEVER when the same word is also combined with { MONO } - meaning = only / one / single -

Μονογενη´ς - monogene¯s - means = THE ONLY ONE BORN

THE ONLY CONCEIVED, BEARING ONLY ONE , ONLY ONE BORN, or BIRTHING ONLY ONE = mono

In a sentence it would be stated as - This is MY “ monogene¯s “ == MY ONLY BORN.
AND
γεννα´ω - gennao¯ - simply means = BORN / CONCEIVE / BEGOT

THE GREEK WORD “ GENNAO¯ “ MEANS TO - CONCEIVE, BEARING, BORN, OR BIRTH.

Heb 1:5 Thou art my Son, this day have I begat / gennao¯ conceived / begotten thee
Mat 1:2 Abraham begat / gennao¯ conceived / begat Isaac… and Jacob… begat / gennao¯ Judah,
Mat 1:20 That which is CONCEIVED begat / gennao¯ conceived / begotten in { Mary } is of the Holy Ghost.

Trinitarians want to manipulate and change and alter the scriptures and pretend that the word Μονογενη´ς - monogene¯s - applies to mean that Yahashua - THE μονογενους - MONOGENE¯S - SON OF GOD, means that Yahashua IS CO - ETERNAL

BUT ONLY CO - ETERNAL BECAUSE AND ONLY FOR SOLE REASON THAT YAHASHUA EXISTED AS A SEPERATED DISTINCT CO - EQUAL, CO - ETERNAL, CO - OMNIPRESENT PERSON OF GOD - pre - existing in heaven in a trinity

HERE THE FACTS

As we see in - Mat 22:44 - every single last one of these multiple passages repeat the phrase - Saying :44 - Sit thou “ EX / εξ “ OUT OF / FROM – exit my right.

Every single last one of these repeated passages, always use the same exact Greek word “ EX = εξ “
Meaning = - OUT OF / FROM. _ exit


In the Greek manuscripts, there is no such a verse that says “ SIT ON or AT MY RIGHT “
The Greek word is always - “ EX / εξ“ exit / from or out or of


The fact is – TRINITARIANS TRANSLATIONS, portray a change in either position or favor and a change or alteration of privilege

But

THE WORD MADE FLESH - Yahashua - IS NOT BEING RELOCATED OR REPOSITIONED in the manuscripts - by simply being seated IN or OUT OF or ON or AT the Right or Right Hand Of God

and

THE WORD MADE FLESH - Yahashua - IS NOT BEING GRANTED PRIVILEGES AND FAVOR in the manuscripts. by simply being seated IN or OUT OF or ON or AT the Right or Right Hand Of God.

Because the Greek word is not “ ON or AT “ - the Right Of God- Yahashua is never seated AT or ON the right of God.
THIS IS A LIE - Trinitarians will never produce a single manuscript that portrays Yahashua existing AT or ON the right of God.

The Greek manuscripts always use the word IN and OUT of the right of God.

Yahashua, THE WORD / GOD - MADE FLESH / BECOMING BEING BORN AS THE SON OF GOD - God creates a MORPH OF HIMSELF that he places OUT OF his right - but yet is IN the Right at the same time

the fact remains, - that in the Trinitairan translation, Jesus is not positioned or privileged nor favored to “ Sit AT or ON the right of God.

The Greek manuscripts always use the word IN and OUT of the right of God.

The J.W. translation has the same mistranslation as the Trinitarian translation … … . J.W. - 44 Jehovah said to my Lord: “ Sit AT my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet.

The fact is - Yahashua is ONLY and ALWAYS / ONLY denoted to be either IN or OUT of the Right of God.

Act 7:55 Steven looked upward into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Yahoshua standing { ε κ / - ek / ex - FROM - exiting - Out of } the right of God

Mat 22:44 + Mar 12:36 THE LORD SAID - LORD, SIT { ε κ / - ek / ex - FROM - exiting - Out of } MY RIGHT.

Mat 26:64 + Mar 16:19 shall ye see the Son of man sitting { ε κ / - ek / ex - FROM - exiting - Out of } the right of power.

Mar 16:19 + Luk 22:69 Yahashua - … . was received up into heaven, and sat { ε κ / - ek / ex - FROM - exiting - Out of } the right of God.

We see that - In John Chapter 8: - The bible clearly explains exactly who Yahoshua is …

Yahoshua says three things here about his identity.

i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT ALSO FROM - OF MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -

John 8:42
i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT ALSO FROM - OF MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -

- ε γ ω I AM - γ α ρ FOR - ε κ FROM - τ ο υ THE - θ ε ο υ GOD - ε ξ η λ θ ο ν CAME OUT -

κ α ι ALSO - η κ ω COME - ο υ δ ε NOT - γ α ρ ALSO - α π OF - ε μ α υ τ ο υ MYSELF - ε λ η λ υ θ α I COME -

α λ λ NEITHER - ε κ ε ι ν ο ς MYSELF - μ ε I - α π ε σ τ ε ι λ ε ν SENT.

We see the Greek word “ EX = ε ξ“

- - EX - Meaning = A primary preposition denoting origin ( the point whence motion or action proceeds) , From, Out Of Place, : - After, among / from... By (the means of) Of, Off ( From), Out Among - ( From, Of ) - Out Of .

This Greek word " “ EX = ε ?ξ“ " - is used 917 total times in the manuscripts.

This is the exact word used in Heb 1:13

:13 Sit -- “ EX = ε ?ξ“ - OUT FROM " my right, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

The Trinitarian Translators changed this word - " - “ EX = ε ?ξ“ - Meaning = OF - OUT FROM " and they deleted the original word and replaced it with the word " ON "
This exact Greek word is used - 917 total times in the Bible and here are only 20 examples.

Mat 1:3 Phares and Zara " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " Thamar
Mat 1:5 Boaz " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " Rachab and Obed " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " Ruth
Mat 1:6 Solomon " - ex - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " her that had been the wife of Urias;
Mat 1:18 he was found with child " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " the Holy Ghost.
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " heaven
Mat 2:6 for " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " thee shall come a Governor
Mat 5:37 for whatsoever is more than these cometh " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " evil.
Mar 14:25 I will drink no more " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " the fruit of the vine,
Luk 1:61 There is none " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " thy kindred
Luk 4:22 the gracious words which proceeded " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " his mouth.
Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure " - ex - OF - OUT FROM " his heart
Luk 9:35 A voice out " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " the cloud
Luk 20:35 the resurrection " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " the dead,
Joh 1:44 Now Philip was " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " Bethsaida
Joh 12:32 if I be lifted up " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " the earth
Joh 19:2 And the soldiers platted a crown " - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " thorns,

The word = “ EX = ε ?ξ“ - ex - OF - OUT - FROM " does not mean the word " ON or AT “

the Trinitarians and Jehovah Witnesses - go throughout the entire Bible changing the two words ε ?ξ“ - ex OUT OF / FROM and “ IN ε ν " “ into the words “ AT and ON “ all of the verses where it applies to Yahoshua’ s identity as being “ IN ε ν “ the RIGHT of power - being “ IN ε ν “ the right of God

“ IN ε ν “ is own right
“ IN ε ν “ in the heavenly place
“ IN ε ν “ the right of the throne of God
“ IN ε ν “ the right of the Majesty - “ IN ε ν “ the high. –

Yahashua exits out / EX OUT FROM the right of God OUT OF GOD

NOT OUT OF HIMSELF
John 8:42
i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT ALSO FROM - OF MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -

and dwells IN / ε ν the right of God until his enemies are defeated and made his footstool - he then returns back up to the throne of God - to sit IN the throne of the Father - from where he originated EXITING OUT from - before the word was made flesh.

So - God is a Father and is now - also, God is also becomes a Son - BY EARTHLY BIRTH

The God and Father was not always a Father - but became a Father when he created SONS and DAUGHTERS. - and the God and Son was not always a Son - but a Son - when he MORPHED / MANIFESTED and CONCEIVED himself “ The HOLY SPIRIT - MORPHED and manifested - as CHRIST / The Anointing in Yahashua.


John 8:42
i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT ALSO FROM - OF MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT –

This already proves that Jesus here - was not CO omnipresent

… not Co Equal - and not Co Eternal –
HERE WE SEE that Jesus, the son is not previously or formerly EXISTING on the right hand of God…
God is saying of Jesus COMING TO BE BORN ON EARTH - SIT HERE UNTIL THIS TIME COMES

If - If - If God was causing a son to sit on his right hand - this means that Jesus was not formerly or previously sitting there - or God would not have cause or reason to command Jesus to relocate himself and then place himself there - ON HIS RIGHT HAND.

IN THE TRINNITARIAN MIND - JESUS IS BEING ASKED TO BE RE - POSITIONED - TO SIT IN ANOTHER LOCATION - and - this place, is him moving / being moved from a former location or privilege or power or position to come to a new position at the right hand of God “ THIS NEW POSITION ON or AT the right of God - this is not where God intends Jesus to sit for eternity or as a permanent location.

Jesus is only to be there UNTIL a certain time passes. AFTER THIS TIME EXPIRES –

Mar 12:36 -------- Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

The idea that ------ Jesus-Holy Spirit is omnipresent, and CO - EQUAL and CO - ETERNAL and that there is no where or location for Him, He is everywhere.

This is not what the TRINITARIAN Bible is saying.. Jesus is relocated to a different seat or place and he is told that he will be seated or present there - O N L Y - until a specific duration of time - until a specific action is completed.
This already proves that Jesus here - was not omnipresent … … … … … …

This means that Jesus was not always there and that he will not always be there / Jesus is being relocated, passing from one location and moving to another location - a location where he was not previously - and not omnipresent he will be REMOVED and TAKEN OUT, AWAY from the RIGHT HAND OF GOD - once the time has expired… … … … … … .. HIS TRINITARIAN DEITY is - not CO - EQUAL and not CO - ETERNAL.

Jesus is told - Sit thou here - on my right hand, until - this time has come. Trinitarians alter, manipulate and change and pervert the entire Bible .... In the manuscripts - he is the same God manifesting and morphing himself in the flesh. Exiting
OUT OF God –

IN the right of God, IN the right of the throne and IN the right of power - as the same person, same deity,
same God MORPHED from Spirit, changed, altered and modified / morphed into a physical manifestation.

Transformed changed, altered - in the morph of God taking on a morph of God BUT MADE EMPTY, VAIN, AND VOID OF BEING EQUALLY AND FULLY GOD - AS A MAN, whose Holy Spirit originated from heaven and not earth.

The Son of God - a Son of Man - whose literal spirit, is the identity of self same Holy Spirit - The Anointing. / Christ.
Yahashua is Eternal, is Omnipresent, and is God - BUT God did not manifest himself as a man by morphing himself physically or spiritually equal. God changed, LOWERED and altered and LOWERED himself - God became a servant and a man with a physical human body.

but not as another separate CO ETERNAL, CO EQUAL SEPARATED PERSON. But a manifestation or morph of the same person. Same Eternal Spirit.

He is the same person - same God making himself lower and empty , vain , vacant and EMPTY - existing as a man from heaven.

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Yahashua, The Anointing
This is the true God, and eternal life.

Trinitarianism seeks to destroy the originating manuscript message throughout the entire Bible - while conforming and transforming and altering the originating message into an image that Trinitarians have preconceived in their doctrines and imagination.

"He is the radiance of the glory of God, and the EXACT IMPRINT of God's very Nature" (Hebrews 1:3)
BECAUSE THAT HIS SPIRIT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT -
His father is greater than him, BECAUSE HE WILL GO TO THE FATHER FROM WHERE HE CAME OUT / EXISTED OUT FROM

Not because his authority is contradicted by the Father

Joh_14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: BECAUSE my Father is greater than I.

BECAUSE that my Father is greater than I. I go to the father.

We cannot see the Father unless we see Yahashua - his invisible Holy Spirit cannot be seen

God does not want humans to go to heaven and return back to earth for the 1000 years while living in his spirit world of the unseen

- he wants us to go to heaven to retain our earthly bodies - and keep our earthly human senses and see him, the father - when we look upon Yahashua

when we look upon Yahashua - we look upon the Father with the fullness of The Holy Spirit dwelling in him
Joh 1 4:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Trinitarians eternally leave Yahashua sitting on and at the right hand of the Father
And
Trinitarians eternally ask Yahashua = where is the father

WHERE IS THE FATHER ? In other words - Yahashua is asking why Trinitarians cannot see the father - why are you asking about the father - just look at me - I am not another person with the father
I am the father / God - manifested as a son in the flesh.

Php 2:6 - explains exactly the identity of The Son Of God - Yahashua is described as being - IN THE - morphe¯ _ morph of God


" who - being IN the form / MORPH μ ο ρ φ η´ of God, - though he judged and AUTHORIZED himself - NO SEIZURE nor CAPTURING of the ability and power to be EQUALLY GOD here on earth - as a human man / servant/

´ Php 2:6 Who, being in the μ ο ρ φ η´ - morphe¯ _ morph of God, judged not taking existence equally God:

:7 But receiving himself EMPTY / VOID and receiving upon him the μ ο ρ φ η ´ - morphe¯ _ morph of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man:

In other words Yahashua came to earth in a changed and altered lesser and emptied form - a form of God that which God did not PREVIOUSLY PRE EXIST

[JoeyKnothead]

I had a conversation with a Christian apologist named Brian G. Bloedel. Following are the excerpts from our conversation:
Brian: The issue of the true fundamental nature of Jesus can be determined with these two questions. First, was Mary the physical mother of Jesus? Second, who caused Mary to become pregnant with Jesus? What would be the answers?

Naw now, someone's atrying to fish on credit. Ya gotta put some bait on that hook...

By what means can we confirm Mary existed?
By what means can we confirm Mary got pregnant?

Then we can set in on the rest.

Me: Tell me, who created Adam without Father and Mother?
Brian: The Genesis record clearly indicates that God Almighty created Adam from the dust of the earth. Eve was taken directly from the body of Adam. Like the conception of Jesus, this was another case of "God said BE---and it was".

The Genesis account -not estashibled 'record'- presents claims to the effect there, while offering us no means by which me may confirm the veracity of any of it. Furthermore, current medical technology limits us to just the taking out the rib, but not the making us a pretty thing with it.

Me: It means God who created Adam without a Father and Mother is able to create Jesus, as well, without a father. If the claim is made that 'Jesus is God's son because he was created without a father, then the same claim befits Adam even more.

Heck, if ol God was created without a father, well there we go. We're all us just a buncha fatherless so and sos.

Brian: God created Adam (and then made Eve) as single Divine acts. "God said BE---and it was". No angel or human was involved in these acts; only God Almighty. The question about Jesus is: was Mary the physical mother of Jesus? If yes, then there is a second element in the physical birth of Jesus: the physical human Mary. Was Mary the mother of Jesus?

See above, Mary's existence ain't even been established, so the fussing on her doings is putting the cart so far ahead of the horse, he'll hafta stop and take him a rest, just to try to catch him up to it.

Maybe it was ol ugly Suzy there, wih her one buck tooth, and that one eye that points it off yonder way, whole the other'ns looking for it something else around the block. Everyone knows she could be had with a nickel and a smile.

Me: When God can create Adam by saying 'Be', similarly he can create Jesus by saying 'Be'. What's the big deal?

By getting Mary pregnant, if the tale be told, we have sound indication God got human fever, God got human fever.

Brian: the Genesis record makes it clear that Adam did not have a 'mother' in the ordinary sense of the word. Adam was created directly by God. So the important question still stands: was Mary the physical mother of Jesus?

Adam's existence ain't it been established neither.

Me: Well, Mary was his mother, That's what you want to hear, right? If God sent angel to Mary and he blew breath to Mary and she conceived, What's the big deal for God? You're trying to prove "Third Entity" of Trinity. I won't accept any ridiculous explanations which were initiated by pagan-influenced theologians of 1st century. All I need to know, where God mentioned Trinity in complete details in Jewish Scriptures? Where Jesus talked to Jews about Trinity in full discourse?

In a poorly written movie script that got it rejected by every honorable studio in Jerusalem, til some Ellery Queen wanna be convinced him some rich producer to make a direct to dvd movie.

Brian: The doctrine of the Trinity was developed by theologians long after the death and resurrection of Jesus. It came about from the study of the passages in Mathew and Luke dealing with the unique conception of Jesus, and the words of Jesus and his followers in passages like Mathew 26:63-65, Mark 14:61-63, Luke 9:18-21 and John 8:54-58 & 10:25-30.

Playing along, I don't see a problem with thinking it took some folks some time to catch up to the story. We knew the moon was there for a long time before we could confirm it wasn't it the greatest ball of cheese in all existence.

The notion of a trinity coming later merely points to the fallibility of man.

As you observed, he couldn't answer the main question: Why God did not reveal complete details of Trinity to his prophets in Jewish Scriptures? Why Jews were ignorant of this concept?

Everyone loves a good murder mystery.

Or, folks're speculating like some stock trader on him a week long coke binge.