Paradise on Earth

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:25 am

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu May 07, 2020 4:51 am

[Replying to post 1544 by Checkpoint]

I do believe you have already posted exactly the same post above. Was there a reason you have chosen to immediately repeat your request ?

JW

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Thu May 07, 2020 6:48 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1544 by Checkpoint]

I do believe you have already posted exactly the same post above. Was there a reason you have chosen to immediately repeat your request ?

JW

Yikes!

You are quite right; please accept my apology.

It happened when I was editing, which I do after posting.

Guess there is always a first time!

May it also be the last time.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Thu May 07, 2020 11:58 pm

[Replying to post 1543 by JehovahsWitness]

Checkpoint wrote:

Are there any significant differences, omissions, or additions, in the JW post?

[

Differences: my words were my own, thus since the post doesn't contain only direct quotes, there are therefore differences in expressions. There are no "significant differences" in ideas, as in there are no ideas that are not in harmony with those found in the scripture.

omissions: my post was not exhaustive, it wasn't meant to cover every thought to be found in scripture, but only some of the main ideas presented in Matthew 13

additions: I added only relevant ideas (expressed in my own words) based on a wholistic approach to scripture. There are no unscriptural ideas added to my post.

I invite anybody that wishes to challenge the above to attempt to do so by explaining what is unscriptural about what I posted ie. what was posted that cannot possibly be true according to the bible.

In this post of yours is something new, your own exposition of the Matthew 13 weeds and wheat parable.

So I ask this question to clarify things at this point, before I make any comments:

Does what I have posted here of yours, apply to both your earlier explanation and to this later exposition?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Fri May 08, 2020 2:36 am

[Replying to post 1547 by Checkpoint]

I've explained a lot, can you specifically say what element you are referring to?

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Fri May 08, 2020 4:06 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1547 by Checkpoint]

I've explained a lot, can you specifically say what element you are referring to?

Yes.

This is your exposition:

MATTHEW 13:30, 39-43

H
A (#1 First collect /identification of the "weeds" (imitation Christians) v41
R
V (#2 then, the gathering the wheat (true Christians) into the "storehouses" (the organised
E Christian congregation v30)
S
T

And then...

the burning of the "weeds" (v42) (destruction of imitation christianity) and the shining in the kingdom (return of Christ with his 144,000 brothers in kingdom glory v43)

This is your explanation:

It is called harvest time because it is a period marked by a spiritual harvest of Christs remaining anointed brothers (meaning a gathering of spirit anointed born again Christians firstly into his congregation and then later to his side in heaven).

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Fri May 08, 2020 6:46 am

Okay,

I have MERGED the elements of the first answer post #1517 (blue) into the chart (post #1543)

JehovahsWitness post #1517 wrote:It is called harvest time because it is a period marked by a spiritual harvest of Christs remaining anointed brothers (meaning a gathering of spirit anointed born again Christians firstly into his congregation and then later to his side in heaven) .

MERGED

MATTHEW 13:30, 39-43 * [It is called harvest time because it is a period marked by a spiritual harvest

H*
A (#1 First collect /identification of the "weeds" (imitation Christians) v41
R
V (#2 then, the gathering the wheat (true Christians: Christs remaining anointed brothers .
E [...] a gathering of spirit anointed born again Christians
S into the "storehouses" (the organised Christian congregation v30) firstly into his congregation
T

And then/ /then later ...

the burning of the "weeds" (v42) (destruction of imitation christianity) and the shining in the kingdom (return of Christ with his 144,000 brothers in kingdom glory [at] his side in heaven v43)

JW

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Fri May 08, 2020 11:56 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote: Okay,

I have MERGED the elements of the first answer post #1517 (blue) into the chart (post #1543)

JehovahsWitness post #1517 wrote:It is called harvest time because it is a period marked by a spiritual harvest of Christs remaining anointed brothers (meaning a gathering of spirit anointed born again Christians firstly into his congregation and then later to his side in heaven) .

MERGED

MATTHEW 13:30, 39-43 * [It is called harvest time because it is a period marked by a spiritual harvest

H*
A (#1 First collect /identification of the "weeds" (imitation Christians) v41
R
V (#2 then, the gathering the wheat (true Christians: Christs remaining anointed brothers .
E [...] a gathering of spirit anointed born again Christians
S into the "storehouses" (the organised Christian congregation v30) firstly into his congregation
T

And then/ /then later ...

the burning of the "weeds" (v42) (destruction of imitation christianity) and the shining in the kingdom (return of Christ with his 144,000 brothers in kingdom glory [at] his side in heaven v43)
JW

OK. This post therefore refers to the Matthew 13 verses cited, and to your MERGED exposition/explanation of them.

When comparing the two, I noted this one significant difference:

Your "harvest time" includes what Jesus, in saying "at that time", verse 30, specifically excludes when he says "let both grow together until the harvest".

Do you get what I am now saying, JW?

I could say more, about this and some other things.

I prefer to keep it simple and deal with one issue at a time, but whatever, that seems to seldom be the case.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sat May 09, 2020 6:01 am

Checkpoint wrote:When comparing the two, I noted this one significant difference:

Your "harvest time" includes what Jesus, in saying "at that time", verse 30, specifically excludes when he says "let both grow together until the harvest".

So (correct me if Im mistaken) you are saying

JESUS : excludes the events connected with the expression "at that time" (v30)

JW: includes the events connected with the expression "at that time" (v30)

I will try and address the above once I clarify if the above is the point you are trying to make. If yes, that is what you are saying , I have the following questions:

Question #1. WHAT time in your opinion is Jesus referring to when he says "at that time" (v30)?

Question #2 Jesus said "let both grow together until the harvest": when does said "growing" take place a) before the harvest b) during the harvest or c) after the harvest ?

I have to ask you the above because it's not really clear to me what you are saying.

JW

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Sun May 10, 2020 4:41 am

[Replying to post 1552 by JehovahsWitness]

Question #1. WHAT time in your opinion is Jesus referring to when he says "at that time" (v30)?

Question #2 Jesus said "let both grow together until the harvest": when does said "growing" take place a) before the harvest b) during the harvest or c) after the harvest ?

I have to ask you the above because it's not really clear to me what you are saying.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them
in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.

QUESTION #1: "At that time" refers to the specific harvest time that begins immediately after the growth time is ended by his instruction to the harvesters.

QUESTION #2: a) before the harvest he names "the harvest'.

marco · Post by **marco** » Sun May 10, 2020 4:57 am

Checkpoint wrote:

30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them
in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.
QUESTION #1: "At that time" refers to the specific harvest time that begins immediately after the growth time is ended by his instruction to the harvesters.

Do you think there is point in discussing anything temporal in figurative illustration? Obviously he will NOT tell the harvesters, since they are not harvesters. He is employing figurative language, presumably to stay deliberately vague; so trying to extract time and place from poetry is a tough and unrewarding task. Clarity wasn't one of Christ's best features. Ergo much debate.