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For debate:JehovahsWitness wrote: From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.
Good to see that you know it is a fact that the term is from the Bible. Yet thought you know this, that doesn't seem to matter. Your concerns is more with defense than truth.Tcg wrote:The fact that the term "last days" appears in the Bible doesn't mean that the term can only be used in the way some claim the Bible meant it.
Sure. Is the author of this thread an acceptable source?
Do you have anything to add concerning the term 'last days' from another source to add to the debate?
Prove it. What is the earliest example you can find. Who was the first to speak of the 'last days'? Shouldn't the first to speak of it, own it?Zzyzx wrote: .Christianity and the Bible have no monopoly on 'the last days' or 'end times' or 'end of the world'2timothy316 wrote: What ever you think about the Bible is irrelevant. The term 'last days' came from the Bible going back to the Bible over 2000 years ago. Do you have anything to add concerning the term 'last days' from another source that predates the book of Isaiah to add to the debate? Or are you done with trying to figure out what the last days actually are? You seem to not know who wrote the Bible. It might be adventitious to know for sure before you make guesses.
All those expressions carry strong biblical connotations and I do believe we are posting in Christianity & Apologetics, so input from what the Christian position is obviously relevant to the discussion.Zzyzx wrote:
Christianity and the Bible have no monopoly on 'the last days' or 'end times' or 'end of the world'
When a person can't refute the information they attack the source. Classic 'last resort' debate tactic. It's the only play they have. It a move of desperation and an effort to make themselves feel better....yawn....JehovahsWitness wrote: I for one do not appreciate being told that the biblical understanding is "irrelevant", especially in a thread where my own words are posted on the top of every page to introduce the topic.
Otseng is a bright fellow, but he is not seeing 'end of the current system' that others do not see. I doubt that he considers himself a seer of the future or a teller of fortunes.2timothy316 wrote: But he sees the evidence of things not seen, such as the end of the current system of the world, which is not seen but he can see it's end.
I didn't say that the term is from the Bible, I stated that it appears in the Bible. This should not be confused as a claim to know it's origin.2timothy316 wrote:Good to see that you know it is a fact that the term is from the Bible. Yet thought you know this, that doesn't seem to matter. Your concerns is more with defense than truth.Tcg wrote:The fact that the term "last days" appears in the Bible doesn't mean that the term can only be used in the way some claim the Bible meant it.
I have pointed out the fact that the term "last days" can be used in many ways. I'm not sure why you failed to address this given that my point is very clear.
Though I am interested in the following, "doesn't mean that the term can only be used in the way some claim the Bible meant it." I like that you're focusing on 'the way some claim the Bible meant it". So now this puts you on your own. Yet there is not indication in the Bible that people where to try to figure this out on their own. Why do you think you're on your own or to seek out another source to figure out what the last days are? 2 Timothy 3:16 says, "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight." Yet what are you using to 'set things straight'? Why should it be trusted?
Do you have anything to add concerning the term 'last days' from another source to add to the debate?
Sure. Is the author of this thread an acceptable source?
Once again you have failed to address my point. Otseng stated quite clearly that when he uses the term "last days" in this thread, he is not referring only to it's religious meaning. Clearly this doesn't preclude him from doing so.Great question! Is he? Because if he is then what do your think of the following, "For years I've believed the end is near, but not publicly willing to make the claim. Now I'm convinced it's here."
viewtopic.php?p=1008297#1008297
The thing is I know he is not a prophet but he is well versed the Bible. What he said was an expression of faith. Not the faith that the world knows of, which is actually credulity. But he sees the evidence of things not seen, such as the end of the current system of the world, which is not seen but he can see it's end. HEB. 11:1. It like algebra. 4+x=16. The person of faith can solve for x based on the evidence of the rest of the equation. So I hope you do use the author of this thread as an acceptable source. It would serve you well.
So do you? You're using him as a reference for truth or are you not...are you back-peddling?Zzyzx wrote: .Otseng is a bright fellow, but he is not seeing 'end of the current system' that others do not see. I doubt that he considers himself a seer of the future or a teller of fortunes.2timothy316 wrote: But he sees the evidence of things not seen, such as the end of the current system of the world, which is not seen but he can see it's end.
Yet to unwise to ignore the most likely outcome.We are all wise to acknowledge that we do not know the outcome.
Opinion...However, changing the current system does NOT equate to 'end times' or 'end of the world'.
Yet the pandemic is not the only thing of the 'last days' according to the book that coined it.Many pandemics have radically altered societies in the past and economies (world and national) have undergone massive disruption.
Actually you're correct. The thing you will not accept is that the person that has "knowledge of the past and some understanding of present conditions" was Jesus Christ some 2000 years ago.Predicting that such things will occur does not indicate any gift or wisdom " just some knowledge of the past and some understanding of present conditions.
Tcg wrote:
Sure. Is the author of this thread an acceptable source?
Great question! Is he? Because if he is then what do your think of the following, "For years I've believed the end is near, but not publicly willing to make the claim. Now I'm convinced it's here."
viewtopic.php?p=1008297#1008297
The thing is I know he is not a prophet but he is well versed the Bible. What he said was an expression of faith. Not the faith that the world knows of, which is actually credulity. But he sees the evidence of things not seen, such as the end of the current system of the world, which is not seen but he can see it's end. HEB. 11:1. It like algebra. 4+x=16. The person of faith can solve for x based on the evidence of the rest of the equation. So I hope you do use the author of this thread as an acceptable source. It would serve you well.
And you didn't answer my question. You said, "Sure. Is the author of this thread an acceptable source?" I asked, "is he"? I dont care about your point. Only what you view as a source of truth. Or are you do you view yourself the source of all truth? If so, nothing can compete with that. If you will only listen to yourself as to the definition of the 'last days' then there is nothing left to debate. 'Once again you have failed to address my point. Otseng stated quite clearly that when he uses the term "last days" in this thread, he is not referring only to it's religious meaning. Clearly this doesn't preclude him from doing so.
Tcg
A few seconds of internet search yields:2timothy316 wrote:Prove it. What is the earliest example you can find. Who was the first to speak of the 'last days'?Zzyzx wrote: Christianity and the Bible have no monopoly on 'the last days' or 'end times' or 'end of the world'
Can Bible mention be shown to have been written prior to 2800 BCE?An Assyrian clay tablet dating to around 2800 B.C. bears the inscription: Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... n-9126331/
Subsequent users (or their supporters) should not claim originality.2timothy316 wrote: Shouldn't the first to speak of it, own it?
Let's not lose scope of the discussion and what my question addresses:2timothy316 wrote:
And you didn't answer my question. You said, "Sure. Is the author of this thread an acceptable source?" I asked, "is he"?
Quite clearly I was referring to Otseng as a source for one who uses the term "last days" in a way that is beyond simply it's religious use.Tcg wrote:The fact that the term "last days" appears in the Bible doesn't mean that the term can only be used in the way some claim the Bible meant it.
Sure. Is the author of this thread an acceptable source?
Do you have anything to add concerning the term 'last days' from another source to add to the debate?
As you can see, I have referred to Otseng as a source of truth related to the broader use of the term "last days." Clearly I don't see myself as the source of all truth.
I dont care about your point. Only what you view as a source of truth. Or are you do you view yourself the source of all truth? If so, nothing can compete with that. If you will only listen to yourself as to the definition of the 'last days' then there is nothing left to debate.
Which "last days?"Do you have any more information to add other than your opinion to define the 'last days'?
