Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

[Revelations won]

Jehovah of the Old Testament, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

There are some today who do not understand or accept that Jehovah of the Old Testament is in fact Jesus Christ of the New Testament. My observation is that He is in very deed the great Jehovah, who was and is King of kings and Lord of lords, even the very Messiah, our lord and redeemer, the Holy One of Israel and the the author of our resurrection and the only name whereby man can be saved. This is my take on this topic. I welcome all would care to debate and provide your evidence to support contrary or opposing views. The following scriptures are presented as evidence supporting my take on the above subject:

Isaiah 43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour:"

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Isaiah 25:8-9 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.


Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.


Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Exodus 3:14 God calls himself I AM 3 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.


John 8:54-58 (Before Abraham was I AM. 54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55
Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was,
I AM.


Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.


Deuteronomy 32:2-4 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.


1Corinthians 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


Hebrews 5:8-9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


Psalms 118:22-24 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23
This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24
This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.





Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


John 10:1-11 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6
This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Ephesians 2:18-20 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Hebrews 1:1-4 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.


Hebrews 2:8-11 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
The same was in the beginning with God.
3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


Colossians 2:8-14 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

[PinSeeker]

The bible tells you lots of things - but can you show precisely where Jesus calls The Father, Jehovah?

I think maybe you're mistaking me for a Jehovah's Witness.

Rather, Jehovah is after The Father, and embodied in Jesus for that specific purpose.

And is this something you just think? Or is there something actually in the Bible that you think conveys this? I don't completely disagree with this statement, by the way.

Not all that Jesus spoke of was recorded in the bible. In fact, very little. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

So... what is your source, then? You seem to be avoiding my question. I guess that's answer enough.

Jesus/Jehovah fluffed up and thus had to rectify. He hastily cursed the creation without getting all the information required to make a better judgement.

I'll ignore this;

Most Christians do. But it remains a biblical fact, anyway.

Well,yes, most Christians do ignore blatant non-biblical statements, and I'm following suit here. Maybe it is what you think is biblical fact, and that's fine with me. Grace and peace to you.

[William]

The bible tells you lots of things - but can you show precisely where Jesus calls The Father, Jehovah?

I think maybe you're mistaking me for a Jehovah's Witness.

No. I think you are a Christian. I am particularly focusing on the thread title in relation to using the name "Jehovah"...but if you can show me any name Jesus refers to when speaking of The Father, I am interested.

Rather, Jehovah is after The Father, and embodied in Jesus for that specific purpose.

And is this something you just think? Or is there something actually in the Bible that you think conveys this? I don't completely disagree with this statement, by the way.

Not all that Jesus spoke of was recorded in the bible. In fact, very little. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

So... what is your source, then? You seem to be avoiding my question. I guess that's answer enough.

The bible tells me so. I am slightly surprised that you as a Christian do not know the sentence I used is from that source.

Jesus/Jehovah fluffed up and thus had to rectify. He hastily cursed the creation without getting all the information required to make a better judgement.

I'll ignore this;

Most Christians do. But it remains a biblical fact, anyway.

Well, yes, most Christians do ignore blatant non-biblical statements, and I'm following suit here. Maybe it is what you think is biblical fact, and that's fine with me.

The statement "Jesus/Jehovah fluffed up and thus had to rectify. He hastily cursed the creation without getting all the information required to make a better judgement." is blatantly biblical, rather than not. Unless you are saying that it was not Jesus / Jehovah who was the creator being in the Garden of Eden, then I am correct. [Link to biblical details]

Otherwise, please explain to us who the entity was which is referred to as 'LORD'.

Jesus eventually had the blame pinned onto him [for Adams sin] because he understood human beings were always looking for someone else to blame and thus never dealt with their own stuff. This way Jesus could remove that from the equation. Individuals had no one to blame for their actions but themselves, which was something overlooked in relation to the curses passed out by Jesus in the Garden of Eden...

[tam]

Peace to you all,


Just an fyi,

The bible tells you lots of things - but can you show precisely where Jesus calls The Father, Jehovah?

Christ would not have used the rendition "Jehovah" (an erroneous rendition of YHWH). BUT it can be shown where Christ states that His Father is the One whom the Jews claim as their God.

"If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me." John 8:54


The Jews claim [YHWH] as their God.

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[William]

Peace to you all,


Just an fyi,

The bible tells you lots of things - but can you show precisely where Jesus calls The Father, Jehovah?

Christ would not have used the rendition "Jehovah" (an erroneous rendition of YHWH). BUT it can be shown where Christ states that His Father is the One whom the Jews claim as their God.

"If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me." John 8:54


The Jews claim [YHWH] as their God.

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Okay so I can rephrase in order to reflect that. If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"

It appears that Jesus is saying that who the Religious Jews claimed to be their God, was his Father.

While there is debate on what those Jews named their God, "Jehovah" "YHWH" - it is impractical to argue about such. This may be precisely why Jesus only referred to The Father as "The Father" - to get around having to enter into that argument.

As to whether Jesus is The Father, as far as the thread of the storyline goes, He was an advanced rendition of an earlier model of how the Religious Jews [Abraham etc..] declared the creator to being.

One could quite easily understand that Jesus was The Father 'in the flesh' trying to clear his name.

{The Jewish stories have him [the creator] appearing as a rather bumbling creator all too ready to jump to conclusions} See the story of Adam and Eve for confirmation re that. [Internal link] but the reality of how the universe came to be is far more complex than that silly story.

This, Jesus would have known, because he created it. When He say's "My Father Showed Me" is is code for "I was there at the time I create this universe."

So he was telling those religious Jews that they didn't even know The Creator - [If they had of known the creator, then they would have known him] ...they only believed in the stories they were told...and just as with the Jews, so too, with the Christians...

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you all,


Just an fyi,

The bible tells you lots of things - but can you show precisely where Jesus calls The Father, Jehovah?

Christ would not have used the rendition "Jehovah" (an erroneous rendition of YHWH). BUT it can be shown where Christ states that His Father is the One whom the Jews claim as their God.

"If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me." John 8:54


The Jews claim [YHWH] as their God.

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Okay so I can rephrase in order to reflect that. If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"

It appears that Jesus is saying that who the Religious Jews claimed to be their God, was his Father.

That is what He said.

While there is debate on what those Jews named their God, "Jehovah" "YHWH" - it is impractical to argue about such. This may be precisely why Jesus only referred to The Father as "The Father" - to get around having to enter into that argument.

It's an argument today (on how to pronounce or correctly render the name of God from YHWH). That doesn't mean it was an argument then. Regardless, the Jews claimed [YHWH] as their God. Christ said that His Father is the One who the Jews said is their God.





Peace again to you all.

[William]

Peace to you,

Peace to you all,


Just an fyi,

The bible tells you lots of things - but can you show precisely where Jesus calls The Father, Jehovah?

Christ would not have used the rendition "Jehovah" (an erroneous rendition of YHWH). BUT it can be shown where Christ states that His Father is the One whom the Jews claim as their God.

"If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me." John 8:54


The Jews claim [YHWH] as their God.

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Okay so I can rephrase in order to reflect that. If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"

It appears that Jesus is saying that who the Religious Jews claimed to be their God, was his Father.

That is what He said.

While there is debate on what those Jews named their God, "Jehovah" "YHWH" - it is impractical to argue about such. This may be precisely why Jesus only referred to The Father as "The Father" - to get around having to enter into that argument.

It's an argument today (on how to pronounce or correctly render the name of God from YHWH). That doesn't mean it was an argument then. Regardless, the Jews claimed [YHWH] as their God. Christ said that His Father is the One who the Jews said is their God.





Peace again to you all.

That doesn't account for what else I wrote which you ignored Tammy.

The point made was that Jesus did not get into debate about what name to use. That is purely religious aftermath. Also the Jewish religious systems in place at the time, argued about a great many things to do with 'how the saw the creator' and Christians have followed suit, and if one is to be truthful, one should acknowledge this.

Always with matters of The Creator, religion steps in to dictate the terms and conditions. Usually through books they refer to as 'holy'. Jesus instructed his followers elsewise.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you all,


Just an fyi,

The bible tells you lots of things - but can you show precisely where Jesus calls The Father, Jehovah?

Christ would not have used the rendition "Jehovah" (an erroneous rendition of YHWH). BUT it can be shown where Christ states that His Father is the One whom the Jews claim as their God.

"If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me." John 8:54


The Jews claim [YHWH] as their God.

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Okay so I can rephrase in order to reflect that. If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"

It appears that Jesus is saying that who the Religious Jews claimed to be their God, was his Father.

That is what He said.

While there is debate on what those Jews named their God, "Jehovah" "YHWH" - it is impractical to argue about such. This may be precisely why Jesus only referred to The Father as "The Father" - to get around having to enter into that argument.

It's an argument today (on how to pronounce or correctly render the name of God from YHWH). That doesn't mean it was an argument then. Regardless, the Jews claimed [YHWH] as their God. Christ said that His Father is the One who the Jews said is their God.





Peace again to you all.

That doesn't account for what else I wrote which you ignored Tammy.

I ignored the rest of what you wrote because it was just speculation and opinion, perhaps an attempt to explain away an "inconvenient verse". Nothing to discuss there, at least not with me.



Peace again to you all.

[William]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you all,


Just an fyi,

The bible tells you lots of things - but can you show precisely where Jesus calls The Father, Jehovah?

Christ would not have used the rendition "Jehovah" (an erroneous rendition of YHWH). BUT it can be shown where Christ states that His Father is the One whom the Jews claim as their God.

"If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me." John 8:54


The Jews claim [YHWH] as their God.

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Okay so I can rephrase in order to reflect that. If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"

It appears that Jesus is saying that who the Religious Jews claimed to be their God, was his Father.

That is what He said.

While there is debate on what those Jews named their God, "Jehovah" "YHWH" - it is impractical to argue about such. This may be precisely why Jesus only referred to The Father as "The Father" - to get around having to enter into that argument.

It's an argument today (on how to pronounce or correctly render the name of God from YHWH). That doesn't mean it was an argument then. Regardless, the Jews claimed [YHWH] as their God. Christ said that His Father is the One who the Jews said is their God.





Peace again to you all.

That doesn't account for what else I wrote which you ignored Tammy.

I ignored the rest of what you wrote because it was just speculation and opinion, perhaps an attempt to explain away an "inconvenient verse". Nothing to discuss there, at least not with me.



Peace again to you all.

Speculation and opinion are what the Christian religion is based upon...Tanmy. My opinion on scripture is as valid as you own. If you choose to ignore what you are unable to make a good counter case against then this generally means your opinion is debunked -in this case- by my own..

Matthew 7:21

[tam]

Peace again,

You keep changing or adding to your responses so I will just add (in response to the most recent change):

[Replying to William in post #109]

If you choose to ignore what you are unable to make a good counter case against then this generally means your opinion is debunked -in this case- by my own..

Unsupported statements do not require a counter argument. Unsupported statements require supporting evidence. I chose to ignore the unsupported statements that you made, just as you are free to ignore any unsupported statements that I make.

[William]

Peace again,

You keep changing or adding to your responses so I will just add (in response to the most recent change):

[Replying to William in post #109]

If you choose to ignore what you are unable to make a good counter case against then this generally means your opinion is debunked -in this case- by my own..

Unsupported statements do not require a counter argument. Unsupported statements require supporting evidence. I chose to ignore the unsupported statements that you made, just as you are free to ignore any unsupported statements that I make.

While there is debate on what those Jews named their God, "Jehovah" "YHWH" - it is impractical to argue about such. This may be precisely why Jesus only referred to The Father as "The Father" - to get around having to enter into that argument.

[supported by the facts of the matter. Jesus did not refer to The Father by any name which the Jews of that time referred to their god as.]

As to whether Jesus is The Father, as far as the thread of the storyline goes, He was an advanced rendition of an earlier model of how the Religious Jews [Abraham etc..] declared the creator to being.

One could quite easily understand that Jesus was The Father 'in the flesh' trying to clear his name.

[Supported by what is written regarding Jesus' own statements and actions]

{The Jewish stories have him [the creator] appearing as a rather bumbling creator all too ready to jump to conclusions} See the story of Adam and Eve for confirmation re that. [Internal link] but the reality of how the universe came to be is far more complex than that silly story.

[supported by scientific research on how the universe came into being]

This, Jesus would have known, because he created it. When He say's "My Father Showed Me" is is code for "I was there at the time I create this universe."

[Supported by many words attributed to having been spoken by Jesus]

So he was telling those religious Jews that they didn't even know The Creator - [If they had of known the creator, then they would have known him] ...they only believed in the stories they were told...and just as with the Jews, so too, with the Christians...

[supported by matters of fact...not simply uneducated opinion.]

The reason you choose not to respond to these supported statements, has to be because you cannot argue against the truth of them. So you choose to ignore, which is just another way of conceding.

I accept your surrender.