What evidence supports the theory of “resurrection”?

[Zzyzx]

Biblical reports indicate that a god-man was killed and was placed in a tomb for three days under guard, the body was missing when the tomb was opened, and the deceased was reportedly seen alive afterward.

A number of questions arise:

1. Was the person actually dead? How was death verified? Many cases of apparent death are cases of mistaken diagnosis or of deliberate falsification.

2. Would it have been possible for the tomb to have been entered or exited during the three days in question? Guards are not absolutely reliable and have been known to be distracted or bribed. A stone put in place by humans could be moved by humans. Is there any assurance that a substitution or some other slight-of-hand could not have taken place?

3. What impartial persons verified that the god-man lived after “arising from the dead”? Claims of associates, particularly close associates, to have seen the deceased living after death are not the most reliable source of truthful information.

If “resurrection” is not factual, is the basis of Christianity still valid?

[Cathar1950]

Goat made the point I was going to stress. There are no eyewitness accounts.
We have stories, in fact many stories and not one claims the writers to have been there. For all we know it was a ritual death and resurection later taken literally and placed in stories.
The earliest accounts are visions that either occurred in Galilee or Jerusalem, take your pick.
There is no reason to think he was a corporal body after this resurrection except from stories written much later. Paul and others seem to be referring to a comic glorified being sitting on the right hand of God soon to come and rule the nations thru Israel. The evidence from the Ebonite tradtion doesn't even require him to be a god/man just a pious human prophet that God vindicates.

[Easyrider]

Goat made the point I was going to stress. There are no eyewitness accounts.

You trying to argue no one was in the sealed tomb when it actually occurred? That's hardly impressive. But there are eyewitness reports after Jesus exited the tomb alive.

The earliest accounts are visions that either occurred in Galilee or Jerusalem, take your pick.

No foundation, just speculation.

There is no reason to think he was a corporal body after this resurrection except from stories written much later.

"Except"? Viva la "except"! And except for that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

Paul and others seem to be referring to a comic glorified being sitting on the right hand of God soon to come and rule the nations thru Israel.

"Comic"? Where do you get these comical descriptives?

The evidence from the Ebonite tradtion doesn't even require him to be a god/man just a pious human prophet that God vindicates.

The historical evidence from the Scriptures say otherwise.

[Goat]

Goat made the point I was going to stress. There are no eyewitness accounts.

You trying to argue no one was in the sealed tomb when it actually occurred? That's hardly impressive. But there are eyewitness reports after Jesus exited the tomb alive.

Really, can you point to these eye witness accounts that the Bible say exists?

The earliest accounts are visions that either occurred in Galilee or Jerusalem, take your pick.

No foundation, just speculation.

There is no reason to think he was a corporal body after this resurrection except from stories written much later.

"Except"? Viva la "except"! And except for that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

Paul and others seem to be referring to a comic glorified being sitting on the right hand of God soon to come and rule the nations thru Israel.

"Comic"? Where do you get these comical descriptives?

The evidence from the Ebonite tradtion doesn't even require him to be a god/man just a pious human prophet that God vindicates.

The historical evidence from the Scriptures say otherwise.

You keep on saying 'NO founation, pure speculation'. That is what you are doing when you are claiming the New Testament acounts , stories from 40 years or more later are.

[Easyrider]

Goat made the point I was going to stress. There are no eyewitness accounts.

You trying to argue no one was in the sealed tomb when it actually occurred? That's hardly impressive. But there are eyewitness reports after Jesus exited the tomb alive.

Really, can you point to these eye witness accounts that the Bible say exists?

Eyewitness Accounts and Testimony

Luke 24:30 - When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"
33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, "It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon." 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

Luke 24:36 - While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." 37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

John 20:16 - Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher). 17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' " 18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.

John 20:19 - On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

John 20:26 - A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

1 Corinthians 15:3 - For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also…

Acts 1:1 - In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.

1 John 4:14 - And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

2 Peter 1:16 - We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Luke 1:1 - Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

Matthew 28:5 - The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you." 8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

You keep on saying 'NO founation, pure speculation'. That is what you are doing when you are claiming the New Testament acounts , stories from 40 years or more later are.

The Gospels, etc., are the foundation. Cathar didn't have anything except throwing out a contrary hypothesis that the resurrection accounts were just "visions."

You don't seem to mind that kind of an enormous reach without some evidence, though, do you?

[Goat]

Goat made the point I was going to stress. There are no eyewitness accounts.

You trying to argue no one was in the sealed tomb when it actually occurred? That's hardly impressive. But there are eyewitness reports after Jesus exited the tomb alive.

Really, can you point to these eye witness accounts that the Bible say exists?

Eyewitness Accounts and Testimony

Luke 24:30 - When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"
33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, "It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon." 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

Luke 24:36 - While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." 37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

John 20:16 - Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher). 17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' " 18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.

John 20:19 - On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

John 20:26 - A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

1 Corinthians 15:3 - For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also…

Acts 1:1 - In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.

1 John 4:14 - And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

2 Peter 1:16 - We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Luke 1:1 - Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

Matthew 28:5 - The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you." 8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

You keep on saying 'NO founation, pure speculation'. That is what you are doing when you are claiming the New Testament acounts , stories from 40 years or more later are.

The Gospels, etc., are the foundation. Cathar didn't have anything except throwing out a contrary hypothesis that the resurrection accounts were just "visions."

You don't seem to mind that kind of an enormous reach without some evidence, though, do you?

None of those are eye witness accounts. They were stories written down decades after the alleged accounts.. not by an eye witness.

Where are the ones by the people who actually saw it, not by people telling stories later.

[Easyrider]

Goat: None of those are eye witness accounts.

No foundation.

[katiej49]

None of those are eye witness accounts. They were stories written down decades after the alleged accounts.. not by an eye witness.

Where are the ones by the people who actually saw it, not by people telling stories later.[/quote]


he gave you eyewitness accounts which you reject. decades later? ya sure? check it out..........

[Cathar1950]

Goat made the point I was going to stress. There are no eyewitness accounts.

You trying to argue no one was in the sealed tomb when it actually occurred? That's hardly impressive. But there are eyewitness reports after Jesus exited the tomb alive.

No I am arguing they are stories. There were not eyewitness reports they are multiple stories written much later. Early reports are still second hand or hearsay at best and they give no details. You are the one speculating here. We don’t have any witnesses that he was placed in a tomb, just traditions and stories. They had visions of him and no one saw him exit the tomb.

The earliest accounts are visions that either occurred in Galilee or Jerusalem, take your pick.

No foundation, just speculation.

You keep repeating that same unfounded charge yet you offer speculation and stories as if they were a collection of eyewitness reports. There is plenty of foundation and like you they don’t know what happened either.

There is no reason to think he was a corporal body after this resurrection except from stories written much later.

"Except"? Viva la "except"! And except for that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

If you’re going to quote someone else you should use the quote in a context that is relevant. Flesh cannot inherent the kingdom of God, only spirit. At least that is what one of the early visionaries told you yet you insist that later stories are true.
I see no reason that they are not fictions.

Paul and others seem to be referring to a comic glorified being sitting on the right hand of God soon to come and rule the nations thru Israel.

[
"Comic"? Where do you get these comical descriptives?

I mean cosmic but comic will do as in a divine comedy. You should read more.

The evidence from the Ebonite tradtion doesn't even require him to be a god/man just a pious human prophet that God vindicates.

The historical evidence from the Scriptures say otherwise.

Like I said the gospels are not historical reports eyewitnesses or evidence.
You cannot show they are historical evidence and all you have is speculation.

[Easyrider]

You trying to argue no one was in the sealed tomb when it actually occurred? That's hardly impressive. But there are eyewitness reports after Jesus exited the tomb alive.

No I am arguing they are stories. There were not eyewitness reports.....

That's an opinion, not a credible argument.

Early reports are still second hand or hearsay at best and they give no details.

Matthew and John are first hand reports. But most of ancient history is second hand or hearsay. Are you prepared to rip out great portions of collegiate history books based on your criteria?



You are the one speculating here. We don’t have any witnesses that he was placed in a tomb, just traditions and stories. They had visions of him and no one saw him exit the tomb.

"Except"? Viva la "except"! And except for that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

Flesh cannot inherent the kingdom of God, only spirit. At least that is what one of the early visionaries told you yet you insist that later stories are true.

You'll have to document what you think I believe contrary to the NT. The Bible is clear that Christ was physically resurrected and ascended to heaven. It's also clear in Paul's epistles that when believers die they go from physical to spiritual bodies.

Like I said the gospels are not historical reports eyewitnesses or evidence.

You can chant that all you want but you're still wrong.

[Zzyzx]

The historical evidence from the Scriptures say otherwise.

"Historical evidence from scriptures" is oxymoronic.