Are we living in the last days?

[otseng]

From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.

For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

[2ndpillar2]

The Atheist apparently don't know where they are going, or where they have been, but are prepared to tell others they are lost, whether they are or not. Time will tell.

I know where I am going and where I have been. I wouldn't tell others they are lost nor have I seen others do so. A bit of a straw man no doubt.

Yes, time will tell and it will tell us the same thing the last two thousand years or so have told us. There is no reason to accept the end times claims some continue to make even after failure after failure of the claims to be shown true.

Tcg

A failure of claims by whom? The left wingers, which seem to be Atheistic Marxist, seem to claim an allegiance to a non existent fixed science, which seems to change by the hour, whereas the father of science, Isaac Newton, who wrote more about the bible, than science, wrote that the day of the Lord will be around 2040. You have the prophet Hosea 6:2 saying that Israel (Judah and Ephraim) will return after two days (2000 years), after I "go away" (Hosea 5:14-6:2). You have Yeshua saying that no would know the day or the hour, except for the Father. And if you know where you are going, then you know that you are going to the grave, or if you have a hint of Hinduism, or Buddhism, you might think you might be coming back as a rat or a cow, or a serial killer. What you seem to over look, is that is where you have been, which according to Yeshua, is walking among the walking dead, who do not seem to recognize their predicament. My claim, is that the "great tribulation" has not happened, but one must be prepared (Matthew 24:43). As for the running up to the "great tribulation", when the nations gather "against Jerusalem" (Zechariah 14:2), you have to first establish Israel in 1948, and that day has came and gone, and the nations represented by the feet of iron and clay, have fought "Israel" in the 1967 and 1973 wars and have came out stricken in bewilderment (Zechariah 12:18), whereas in 1973, in the Golan heights, 5 Israeli tanks held off 1200 Russian built Syrian tanks for over a day until reinforcements of 100 tanks wiped out the 1200 Syrian tanks. The Syrians and Egyptians were fully supplied and trained by the Russians (related to the Russian Czar/Roman Caesar), and yet both failed miserably. Now we are set up for Daniel 2:45, whereas all the nations will be "crushed" at the same time. That has yet to occur. Right now, you even have the Atheistic Chinese Communist coming after Israel. That will not work out well for the Chinese government. The Atheistic North Korean government supplied missile technology to the Iranian Mullahs, whose whole life seems bent on destroying Israel. It is hard to imagine anything going worse for NK, Iran, or China, but it is not looking good for any of them. If China goes after Taiwan, Japan just might slap their hand in conjunction with Taiwan. China had originally planned to invade Taiwan in in 2025, but having bought the Biden family with 1.5 billion dollar investment with Biden's son, along with Joe's rapid mental decline, plus after they have lost the peoples savings in a coming real estate crash, and not paying 38 million retired PLA soldiers their pensions, they may have to invade to avoid loosing power. There is only one month of safe weather to cross the straights in the fall and in the spring. The PLA seems to be at odds with the CCP, so it is hard to test the winds. If you corner a rat, they might strike out. I love it that the CCP now will have to pay Australia huge increases for coal and iron. The down side is China will want to invade Australia, and simply take their resources. Communist, being Atheist, with no foundationsal law, they can do what they want, apart from someone stopping them. You now have a UK, Canadian, and Australian alliance to stop just that. The Progressive/Marxist Progressives of the US and of New Zealand will not be much of a partner. Taiwan will have to hope than India scares China from taking action. India controls the western waterways out of East Asia, which controls most of Chinese commerce. Iran is supposed to have a nuclear weapon within a month according to Israeli intel. Israel made a preemptive strike in 1967 against Egypt, which destroyed the Egyptian air force. The Iranians are probably looking over their shoulders.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #451]That's quite a scenario. Does Hal Lindsey have a new book out or something?

Seriously, though, I spent my youth during the latter years of the Cold War dreading the end of the world and what came of it? The Hal Lindseys were wrong. The founding of modern Israel in 1948 was supposed to usher in the last generation before Jesus returned. 1988, One Biblical generation later, came and went and no return of Jesus. The Soviet Union, which just had to be the great Gog of prophecy, fell apart. So then what? Maybe Christians had to convert the Jews for Jesus to come back, so they've been trying that----still no Jesus. Maybe electing Trump would set the stage for Jesus to come back. Trump was voted out----and still no Jesus.

It seems to me that the "last days" are more likely to be brought about by our own stubborn self-destructiveness than by the fulfillment of any prophecy.

And there are plenty of left wingers who aren't "Atheistic Marxist".

[2timothy316]

It seems to me that the "last days" are more likely to be brought about by our own stubborn self-destructiveness than by the fulfillment of any prophecy.

Could it be that is the prophecy? That the Creator of all things KNEW about our own self-destructiveness and had that written down. That He KNEW what we'd as humans would bring to the earth. That He KNEW that He was going to have to step in and stop us from completely killing all life on this planet.

"But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." - Rev 11:18

[Athetotheist]

It seems to me that the "last days" are more likely to be brought about by our own stubborn self-destructiveness than by the fulfillment of any prophecy.

Could it be that is the prophecy? That the Creator of all things KNEW about our own self-destructiveness and had that written down. That He KNEW what we'd as humans would bring to the earth. That He KNEW that He was going to have to step in and stop us from completely killing all life on this planet.

"But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." - Rev 11:18

What's really ruining the earth? Isn't it capitalism that's ruining the earth by turning lands into deserts and oceans into garbage dumps? By poisoning the air and the water? And for what? Profit. How can Marxists be blamed for that?

Since you like quoting from the Christian Bible so much, I suggest that you go back and review Acts 4:34-35:

"Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need."

Apparently, early Christian society featured a robust economic safety net established through a universal mandate for the downward redistribution of wealth. Imagine that----the first Christians were socialists! So I guess you can expect that godly socialism to be re-established when earth-ruining capitalism has been wiped away.

[TRANSPONDER]

The Atheist apparently don't know where they are going, or where they have been, but are prepared to tell others they are lost, whether they are or not. Time will tell.

I know where I am going and where I have been. I wouldn't tell others they are lost nor have I seen others do so. A bit of a straw man no doubt.

Yes, time will tell and it will tell us the same thing the last two thousand years or so have told us. There is no reason to accept the end times claims some continue to make even after failure after failure of the claims to be shown true.

Tcg

A failure of claims by whom? The left wingers, which seem to be Atheistic Marxist, seem to claim an allegiance to a non existent fixed science, which seems to change by the hour, whereas the father of science, Isaac Newton, who wrote more about the bible, than science, wrote that the day of the Lord will be around 2040. You have the prophet Hosea 6:2 saying that Israel (Judah and Ephraim) will return after two days (2000 years), after I "go away" (Hosea 5:14-6:2). You have Yeshua saying that no would know the day or the hour, except for the Father. And if you know where you are going, then you know that you are going to the grave, or if you have a hint of Hinduism, or Buddhism, you might think you might be coming back as a rat or a cow, or a serial killer. What you seem to over look, is that is where you have been, which according to Yeshua, is walking among the walking dead, who do not seem to recognize their predicament. My claim, is that the "great tribulation" has not happened, but one must be prepared (Matthew 24:43). As for the running up to the "great tribulation", when the nations gather "against Jerusalem" (Zechariah 14:2), you have to first establish Israel in 1948, and that day has came and gone, and the nations represented by the feet of iron and clay, have fought "Israel" in the 1967 and 1973 wars and have came out stricken in bewilderment (Zechariah 12:18), whereas in 1973, in the Golan heights, 5 Israeli tanks held off 1200 Russian built Syrian tanks for over a day until reinforcements of 100 tanks wiped out the 1200 Syrian tanks. The Syrians and Egyptians were fully supplied and trained by the Russians (related to the Russian Czar/Roman Caesar), and yet both failed miserably. Now we are set up for Daniel 2:45, whereas all the nations will be "crushed" at the same time. That has yet to occur. Right now, you even have the Atheistic Chinese Communist coming after Israel. That will not work out well for the Chinese government. The Atheistic North Korean government supplied missile technology to the Iranian Mullahs, whose whole life seems bent on destroying Israel. It is hard to imagine anything going worse for NK, Iran, or China, but it is not looking good for any of them. If China goes after Taiwan, Japan just might slap their hand in conjunction with Taiwan. China had originally planned to invade Taiwan in in 2025, but having bought the Biden family with 1.5 billion dollar investment with Biden's son, along with Joe's rapid mental decline, plus after they have lost the peoples savings in a coming real estate crash, and not paying 38 million retired PLA soldiers their pensions, they may have to invade to avoid loosing power. There is only one month of safe weather to cross the straights in the fall and in the spring. The PLA seems to be at odds with the CCP, so it is hard to test the winds. If you corner a rat, they might strike out. I love it that the CCP now will have to pay Australia huge increases for coal and iron. The down side is China will want to invade Australia, and simply take their resources. Communist, being Atheist, with no foundationsal law, they can do what they want, apart from someone stopping them. You now have a UK, Canadian, and Australian alliance to stop just that. The Progressive/Marxist Progressives of the US and of New Zealand will not be much of a partner. Taiwan will have to hope than India scares China from taking action. India controls the western waterways out of East Asia, which controls most of Chinese commerce. Iran is supposed to have a nuclear weapon within a month according to Israeli intel. Israel made a preemptive strike in 1967 against Egypt, which destroyed the Egyptian air force. The Iranians are probably looking over their shoulders.

That's a fascinating theory of politics and where it might be going. I've seen a lot of such recently. I just don't worry about picking out bits of Bibletext that look like they might fit and pretend that it's prophecy coming true.

[Diagoras]

Isaac Newton, who wrote more about the bible, than science, wrote that the day of the Lord will be around 2040.

I thought it was 2060, not 2040?

If anyones interested in how he calculated this, the Wikipedia article deals with it fairly comprehensively.

Newton and prophecy

Fairly certain hes not been the only person to decide exactly when the End Times are meant to be. Of course, being an unusually intelligent person, he chose a date far enough into the future as to not be personally embarrassed by the time it came and went.

[2timothy316]

It seems to me that the "last days" are more likely to be brought about by our own stubborn self-destructiveness than by the fulfillment of any prophecy.

Could it be that is the prophecy? That the Creator of all things KNEW about our own self-destructiveness and had that written down. That He KNEW what we'd as humans would bring to the earth. That He KNEW that He was going to have to step in and stop us from completely killing all life on this planet.

"But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." - Rev 11:18

What's really ruining the earth? Isn't it capitalism that's ruining the earth by turning lands into deserts and oceans into garbage dumps? By poisoning the air and the water? And for what? Profit. How can Marxists be blamed for that?

I don't know of one style of human government that hasn't done great harm to the Earth or to the people that live on it. Capitalism, monarchies, republics, socialism, etc all have one major problem. Corrupt humans end up in charge of them. They might have grand ideas but in the end, they go corrupt. All human led governments fail over time. There has never been a single government that has stood the since the beginning of human civilization.

Since you like quoting from the Christian Bible so much, I suggest that you go back and review Acts 4:34-35:

"Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need."

Apparently, early Christian society featured a robust economic safety net established through a universal mandate for the downward redistribution of wealth. Imagine that----the first Christians were socialists! So I guess you can expect that godly socialism to be re-established when earth-ruining capitalism has been wiped away.

The new world government will not be ruled by men. (Dan 2:44) The government that will replace all the governments of the Earth will be a theocracy. It's ruler will be Jehovah God. No human placed in a position of power will be corrupt or be allowed to become corrupt. All such things will pass away and never return. (Rev 21:3,4)

[2timothy316]

It seems to me that the "last days" are more likely to be brought about by our own stubborn self-destructiveness than by the fulfillment of any prophecy.

Could it be that is the prophecy? That the Creator of all things KNEW about our own self-destructiveness and had that written down. That He KNEW what we'd as humans would bring to the earth. That He KNEW that He was going to have to step in and stop us from completely killing all life on this planet.

"But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." - Rev 11:18

What's really ruining the earth? Isn't it capitalism that's ruining the earth by turning lands into deserts and oceans into garbage dumps? By poisoning the air and the water? And for what? Profit. How can Marxists be blamed for that?

I don't know of one style of human government that hasn't done great harm to the Earth or to the people that live on it. Capitalism, monarchies, republics, socialism, etc all have one major problem. Corrupt humans end up in charge of them. They might have grand ideas but in the end, they go corrupt. All human led governments fail over time. There has never been a single government that has stood the since the beginning of human civilization. Lies, corruption, mismanagement, greediness, cruelty, and sometimes just stupidity along with many other reasons bring human governments to an end.

Since you like quoting from the Christian Bible so much, I suggest that you go back and review Acts 4:34-35:

"Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need."

Apparently, early Christian society featured a robust economic safety net established through a universal mandate for the downward redistribution of wealth. Imagine that----the first Christians were socialists! So I guess you can expect that godly socialism to be re-established when earth-ruining capitalism has been wiped away.

The new world government will not be ruled by men. (Dan 2:44) The government that will replace all the governments of the Earth will be a theocracy. It's ruler will be Jehovah God. No human placed in a position of power will be corrupt or be allowed to become corrupt. All such things will pass away and never return. (Rev 21:3,4)

[Athetotheist]

It seems to me that the "last days" are more likely to be brought about by our own stubborn self-destructiveness than by the fulfillment of any prophecy.

Could it be that is the prophecy? That the Creator of all things KNEW about our own self-destructiveness and had that written down. That He KNEW what we'd as humans would bring to the earth. That He KNEW that He was going to have to step in and stop us from completely killing all life on this planet.

"But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." - Rev 11:18

What's really ruining the earth? Isn't it capitalism that's ruining the earth by turning lands into deserts and oceans into garbage dumps? By poisoning the air and the water? And for what? Profit. How can Marxists be blamed for that?

I don't know of one style of human government that hasn't done great harm to the Earth or to the people that live on it. Capitalism, monarchies, republics, socialism, etc all have one major problem. Corrupt humans end up in charge of them. They might have grand ideas but in the end, they go corrupt. All human led governments fail over time. There has never been a single government that has stood the since the beginning of human civilization.

Since you like quoting from the Christian Bible so much, I suggest that you go back and review Acts 4:34-35:

"Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need."

Apparently, early Christian society featured a robust economic safety net established through a universal mandate for the downward redistribution of wealth. Imagine that----the first Christians were socialists! So I guess you can expect that godly socialism to be re-established when earth-ruining capitalism has been wiped away.

The new world government will not be ruled by men. (Dan 2:44) The government that will replace all the governments of the Earth will be a theocracy. It's ruler will be Jehovah God. No human placed in a position of power will be corrupt or be allowed to become corrupt. All such things will pass away and never return. (Rev 21:3,4)

Who's going to be overseeing this when it happens?

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/ar ... sianic-age

[2ndpillar2]

Isaac Newton, who wrote more about the bible, than science, wrote that the day of the Lord will be around 2040.

I thought it was 2060, not 2040?

If anyones interested in how he calculated this, the Wikipedia article deals with it fairly comprehensively.

Newton and prophecy

Fairly certain hes not been the only person to decide exactly when the End Times are meant to be. Of course, being an unusually intelligent person, he chose a date far enough into the future as to not be personally embarrassed by the time it came and went.

I think he determined the date with help of the Hebrew calendar, which would put the end time at the Hebrew year 6000. The Hebrew year is a lunar year, which causes some problem in matching it with the Julian/Gregorian solar calendar. The beginning of the millennium would correspond to the 7th day of rest of the Law. Not that the Jews currently properly keep their own calendar, or anything else, but that would be the starting point. As God wrote, the "scribes"/Pharisees have made a lie out of the Law. (Jeremiah 8:8). Newton would have used a scientific method in determining the "end", therefore the science people would have to go with his determination if they weren't hypocrites. As for the exact date he set, I have seen several dates, one being 2034. Regardless, no one will know the hour or the day, but when the fig tree puts on its leaves, you can know the time is near.(Matthew 24:32). It will occur when everyone is eating and drinking and marrying, and not expecting it, then the flood will come. (Matthew 24:38). One must be ready at all times, especially after 2 days/2000 years, on the 3rd day. (Hosea 6:2)