The Duke of Vandals wrote:We're supposed to treat the obviously impossible claims of the gospel as though they're perfectly possible things... as common as the names of ancient places. "There were Egyptians and Hebrews... why not a red sea parting?" As though anything written down in an old book and claimed as true should be taken that way? We should believe it because some scholar has convinced you the author believed it?
Christians, you're too smart to be this stupid. I have tremendous respect for your intellect. You are the victims of a 1600+ year old con and here. There's absolutely no reason for 21st century intellectuals to be slaves to bronze age idiocy and second century propaganda.
Duke,
You have a way of cutting right through the BS and getting to the heart of the matter.
The direct approach attacks the fundamentals that Christians have been jealously protecting for tens of centuries. Many are not conscious of the issues you raise because religious teaching (training / indoctrination), usually since childhood, has been effective at cementing dogma and precluding alternative ideas.
Parents, teachers (schoolers), preachers and politicians aspire to train young people to be compliant and group-oriented because it makes their job easier and provides job security for many. The LAST thing that most of the above want is thinking, questioning, challenging, and individualistic people. Notice how individualism and “free thinking” are discouraged by the “box thinkers” (traditionalists, fundamentalists, anti-liberalists). They actually seem to believe that they have the answers and that no one needs to think for themselves, only follow directions.
Many religionists state that that they have deeply considered fundamental issues – without realizing that they typically
begin thinking with a deep bias to accept the training they have received. The “locked mind” syndrome is an outcome of this training / indoctrination. They seem to resent those who do not share their limitations.
I have asked Christian debate “opponents” if they were willing to change their ideas if strong or compelling evidence pointed away from their chosen religion. The answer was almost unanimously a resounding, “NO”. That is different only by degree, and not too large a degree, from the widely recognized cult “brainwashing” or indoctrination.
Of course, my Christian opponents denied any possibility that they had been indoctrinated, even when admitting that their religious training had started in infancy and sometimes admitting that they had not seriously investigated or considered any other faith (and typically know little about the beliefs of other sects). Devout religionists usually claim that they “use free will to choose their religion” or that they were “called by god” – the same things that are typically claimed by cult members (often because they know nothing different – in both cases).
People grasp the concept of indoctrination or brainwashing if it is done by other religious groups – especially if a cult “lures their children away”. When someone points out that their own church aspires to do the same thing, perhaps to a lesser degree, they become offended, and often hostile – in deep denial. It is not surprising that they can recognize indoctrination in other religions but not their own.
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
