Please Challenge This Hypothesis

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Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #1

Post by POI »

After years of debate, one topic seems to remain without waiver and/or adjustment. I'm placing this topic here, in the forefront/spotlight, to expose it to direct challenge. I will be more than happy than to (waiver from/augment/abort) this hypothesis, baring evidence to the contrary....

Hypothesis: The reason most/all believe in (God/gods/higher powers) is because of evolution. Meaning, 'survival of the fitter." Meaning, all humans who favored type 2 errors over type 1 errors are now mostly gone. We inherit our parent's predisposition to invoke type 1 errors, until otherwise logically necessary. Meaning, few will still BECOME atheists after "going to the well enough times" and not seeing God there.

Allow me to explain. In this context, a type 1 error would be first assuming intentional agency, and being wrong -- (good or bad). Alternatively, a type 2 error would be not to first assume intentional agency, and being wrong.

1) Walking down a dirt path, from point A to point B, and hearing a rustle in the weeds, and first assuming danger, would be a type 1 error IF incorrect. This person would still be alive if they are wrong. Maybe it was actually just the wind. Alternatively, if one was to instead first assume no danger, the wind, but there was danger, this person has first committed a type 2 error and is now likely out of the gene pool. And since this has been happening for a long time, we only have the ones who first invoke type 1 errors.

2) Getting in a car wreck with 3 friends.... Your 3 friends die, but you live. You assume you are purposefully spared. IF you are wrong, there is really no harm and no way to know. There is really also no way to confirm you were not spared. Hence, your possible type 1 error is never confirmed/corrected. Which means you can and will continue to attribute agency, where there may not really be any.

In essence, you first assume agency, until proven otherwise. For God, it is never really unproven. Humans connect the dots, accept the hits and ignore the misses, other...

For debate: Is this is viable reason why most believe in a higher power? Is this also why other arguments, against god(s), hardly change the believer's mind?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #11

Post by Compassionist »

1213 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:25 am
Compassionist wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:32 pm The Bible is an evil and stupid book. Given the number of inaccuracies, contradictions, and evil commands in the Bible, the conclusion is inevitable for me.
Sorry, I disagree with that. I don't think anyone has yet shown a real contradiction in the Bible.
If I had your genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences I would have typed the post you typed when and where you typed it. If you had my genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences you would be typing this post when and where I am typing this post. I blame no living thing. I praise no living thing. All living things are prisoners of causality who do the inevitable. Please see: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/firs ... _list.html

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Re: Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #12

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:25 am
Compassionist wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:32 pm The Bible is an evil and stupid book. Given the number of inaccuracies, contradictions, and evil commands in the Bible, the conclusion is inevitable for me.
Sorry, I disagree with that. I don't think anyone has yet shown a real contradiction in the Bible.
I have, and inaccuracies too, but you just deny everything. It's why this Big Lie persists, even after 40 years of apologetics. Because people only get Bible propaganda, and don't get to hear the problems because the Bible propagandists ignore them if they even see them.

But we (or I) aim to change that, if I can just get the message out.

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Re: Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #13

Post by POI »

Compassionist wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:18 am
1213 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:25 am
Compassionist wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:32 pm The Bible is an evil and stupid book. Given the number of inaccuracies, contradictions, and evil commands in the Bible, the conclusion is inevitable for me.
Sorry, I disagree with that. I don't think anyone has yet shown a real contradiction in the Bible.
If I had your genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences I would have typed the post you typed when and where you typed it. If you had my genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences you would be typing this post when and where I am typing this post. I blame no living thing. I praise no living thing. All living things are prisoners of causality who do the inevitable. Please see: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/firs ... _list.html
For funzies --- (10 minutes, but makes one think...):

In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #14

Post by Compassionist »

POI wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:36 pm
Compassionist wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:18 am
1213 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:25 am
Compassionist wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:32 pm The Bible is an evil and stupid book. Given the number of inaccuracies, contradictions, and evil commands in the Bible, the conclusion is inevitable for me.
Sorry, I disagree with that. I don't think anyone has yet shown a real contradiction in the Bible.
If I had your genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences I would have typed the post you typed when and where you typed it. If you had my genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences you would be typing this post when and where I am typing this post. I blame no living thing. I praise no living thing. All living things are prisoners of causality who do the inevitable. Please see: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/firs ... _list.html
For funzies --- (10 minutes, but makes one think...):

I am a hard determinist. What are you?

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Re: Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #15

Post by POI »

Compassionist wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:09 pm
POI wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:36 pm
Compassionist wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:18 am
1213 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:25 am
Compassionist wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:32 pm The Bible is an evil and stupid book. Given the number of inaccuracies, contradictions, and evil commands in the Bible, the conclusion is inevitable for me.
Sorry, I disagree with that. I don't think anyone has yet shown a real contradiction in the Bible.
If I had your genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences I would have typed the post you typed when and where you typed it. If you had my genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences you would be typing this post when and where I am typing this post. I blame no living thing. I praise no living thing. All living things are prisoners of causality who do the inevitable. Please see: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/firs ... _list.html
For funzies --- (10 minutes, but makes one think...):

I am a hard determinist. What are you?
Honestly, I haven't thought about for a few years. But I believe I'm in that direction, for sure.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #16

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Thank you - a video to watch. Mind, I suspect I have decided on the solution. And I'm not bothered much anyway. Apart from God -apologists trying to evade the problem of evil by blaming it on Man (free will choice), it doesn't get God (who made us that way and should have known what the result would be, even without the Eden stitch -up) off the hook and never did.

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Re: Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #17

Post by Compassionist »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:12 pm Thank you - a video to watch. Mind, I suspect I have decided on the solution. And I'm not bothered much anyway. Apart from God -apologists trying to evade the problem of evil by blaming it on Man (free will choice), it doesn't get God (who made us that way and should have known what the result would be, even without the Eden stitch -up) off the hook and never did.
If God had made all beings equally all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful and given each of them an infinite number of universes then there would be no problems. If you can obtain a lock of hair from Jesus, you can run a paternity test. Many companies offer this service. If the father of Jesus is human, then Jesus did not have a virgin birth. If the paternity test proves that the father of Jesus is the Holy Spirit, then that would prove the claim in the Bible. This would convince me that God is real and evil instead of being imaginary and evil. The only thing that would convince me that a real and good God exists is if that God prevented all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths and made everyone equally all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful and the owner of an infinite number of universes each. Since that has not happened, I remain convinced that the Biblical God is imaginary and evil.

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Re: Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #18

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Compassionist wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:57 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:12 pm Thank you - a video to watch. Mind, I suspect I have decided on the solution. And I'm not bothered much anyway. Apart from God -apologists trying to evade the problem of evil by blaming it on Man (free will choice), it doesn't get God (who made us that way and should have known what the result would be, even without the Eden stitch -up) off the hook and never did.
If God had made all beings equally all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful and given each of them an infinite number of universes then there would be no problems.
No problem at all. But Evolution created us as we are and there is no point in complaining. It's evident: The evolution that created animals, plants and insects made it all in competition to survive. It is fascinating, it is complex, but it is often horrific and cruel. Is it any wonder that humans are the same? But, unlike animals, humans can reason and we have technology. For good or bad, evolution does not control us; we control the environment; and I wonder whether we have slowed our evolution - created an artificial stasis as happens in animal evolution when the environment doesn't change.

But, while religion may have evolved or been invented to help humans co - operate and underpin if not invent, law codes, it isn't enough now. In fact it is divisive and prevents us from understanding what we are by telling us lies about our origins and what we are.

I don't even know if there are studies about it, let alone a discipline, but I think we have to understand ourselves as reasoning animals struggling with destructive as well as co - operative instincts, or we may never find a solution to presents problems and a way of moving on to a saner world and society.

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Re: Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #19

Post by Compassionist »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:08 am
Compassionist wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:57 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:12 pm Thank you - a video to watch. Mind, I suspect I have decided on the solution. And I'm not bothered much anyway. Apart from God -apologists trying to evade the problem of evil by blaming it on Man (free will choice), it doesn't get God (who made us that way and should have known what the result would be, even without the Eden stitch -up) off the hook and never did.
If God had made all beings equally all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful and given each of them an infinite number of universes then there would be no problems.
No problem at all. But Evolution created us as we are and there is no point in complaining. It's evident: The evolution that created animals, plants and insects made it all in competition to survive. It is fascinating, it is complex, but it is often horrific and cruel. Is it any wonder that humans are the same? But, unlike animals, humans can reason and we have technology. For good or bad, evolution does not control us; we control the environment; and I wonder whether we have slowed our evolution - created an artificial stasis as happens in animal evolution when the environment doesn't change.

But, while religion may have evolved or been invented to help humans co - operate and underpin if not invent, law codes, it isn't enough now. In fact it is divisive and prevents us from understanding what we are by telling us lies about our origins and what we are.

I don't even know if there are studies about it, let alone a discipline, but I think we have to understand ourselves as reasoning animals struggling with destructive as well as co - operative instincts, or we may never find a solution to presents problems and a way of moving on to a saner world and society.
I agree with you. My life is dedicated to saving and improving lives.
Last edited by Compassionist on Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Please Challenge This Hypothesis

Post #20

Post by TRANSPONDER »

That sounds like a positive evolution to me. :handshake:

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