Is Gandhi burning in Hell?

[Beto]

The name Gandhi is usually followed by a quick strategic retreat on the lines of "I don't presume to know God's will", when the Christian God's Law seems to be pretty clear as to where Gandhi's soul is right now.

I invite Christians to argue on whether or not Gandhi is in Hell, and on whether or not they personally feel he deserves to be in Hell.

Of course I welcome arguments that show the Law doesn't say Gandhi will not enter Heaven (it's not just about going to Hell).

[Beto]

Christians can try to sugar-coat their scriptures all they want, but in the end, "revere" in this context (relevant to the time period) will have exactly the same meaning as "fear" to any honest interpreter.

Some try to sugar-coat and some do not. I don't really care if it is translated as fear or respect.

It's an instruction on how to "conduct" your relationship with your god. If you don't care how it's translated, than I certainly don't.

This is NOT what modern people associate with "reverence", but it does sound better than "fear" doesn't it?

I see nothing inherently wrong with fear itself. The object of our fear tells us whether our fear is warranted or not doesn't it?

That's what happens in the real world, yes. No god ever even hinted its existence to me, never mind giving me reasons to "fear" or otherwise "revere" it.

[achilles12604]

So the rules and regs of the bible do not affect God's decision. Only God's rules and regs matter. . .

Tim: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Is there some other standard besides the bible you would like me to consider?

No the bible is just fine. But I tend to focus on the Gospels. I notice that the vast majority of the quote you have been using are from Paul. However, in my opinion, Paul's letters represent an interpretation of the Gospel message, not the message itself. It is Paul's interpretation and thus has his slant on the message, just as happens with any preacher. Hence I tend to focus on what the Gospels, especially the synoptic Gospels have to say. Paul's letters come in behind this because I don't think his traditional interpretation of salvation is quite what Jesus indicates in the Gospels.

But then this could very well have been on purpose by God. But this is another topic. There is a passage somewhere in his letters where he refers to Gentiles being saved despite not hearing the message of Jesus. I can't remember it now.

1) Salvation is granted to those who pray the "prayer" and who then assume because they claim to be a follower of Jesus, they now have a get out of jail free card.

2) Anyone who has not prayed the prayer IS going to hell

To clarify, what prayer is it that we are referring to?

It usually goes something like this . . .

[center]Dear Jesus,

I confess I am a sinner. I confess I need you in my life. Please come into my heart lord.

Amen.[/center]

It is usually some variation of this. I know many (most) Christians who believe that if someone has not prayed this prayer, they are going to hell. This position is neither correct, nor supported by the bible in my opinion.

It would be presumptuous on our part to say they went to heaven or to hell. Were they able to hit the mark of their own making with every shot? I doubt it. Did they admit that it was impossible for them or any other man to hit the mark every time and that their Creator is the only one with skill enough to accomplish the task?

Rom: "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)". If they had heard the gospel, would they have accepted it? Did they see the need for God's salvation through Jesus Christ, as the old testament saints and prophets, and that they could not live up to their own standards? I don't know. It's possible some did and some did not.

THERE IT IS!!

We totally agree. THIS is in essence my entire point. Salvation can be written on to ANYONE's heart, regardless of the "correctness" of their particular religion.

4) We must tell the whole world about Jesus so that everyone will know the correct rules sent by God.

Why wouldn't we want to tell the whole world about to good news in the gospel of Jesus Christ? Why would we want to withhold this information from someone who had never heard of it before?

Oh the good news of Jesus is great and totally worthy of spreading. However, my emphasis is on the second part of my sentence. Spreading the Gospel by sending medical care and food is a wonderful approach. Spreading the message by conquering and then forcing conversions at the point of a sword (like Columbus and other Spaniards, the English in america, and Rome during the Crusades) is so harmful to the work of God there are no words to adequately explain. When your intention behind preaching the word is to "correct" the evils of other's beliefs,and to bring them to your particular understanding of religion . . . it is likely to result in bloodshed and hatred of Jesus, not wide acceptance of an otherwise great belief.

Later in his life when he was asked whether he was a Hindu, he replied:

"Yes I am. I am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew."

I'm afraid Ghandi (and anyone who holds this view) will find it difficult to support this view and be logically consistent. This is probably the crux of the matter.

I agree. This is probably the crux of our debate. I totally understand where Gandhi is coming from on this. Most religions (especially the big ones) have a lot in common. Many common theme's run within each. However, each one claims exclusivity. So this becomes an issue unless (like Gandhi) you believe that it is entirely possible that God wanted to reach everyone on their level.

I go in depth with this HERE. Perhaps I should start a thread just for this topic however.

So it is possible to accept Jesus after ones death?

I don't know, I was wondering if anyone knew of anything scriptural that would support such an idea. I do not hold the position myself but am open to the possibility.

I don't know of any one way or the other. I have however found plenty of scripture which causes me to believe that salvation is a matter of the heart. If this is the case, then post death salvation is not necessary because God can judge the most remote amazon tribe by their hearts.

[Goat]

We totally agree. THIS is in essence my entire point. Salvation can be written on to ANYONE's heart, regardless of the "correctness" of their particular religion.

.

If you replace the term 'salvation', with 'the path to god', then that is a very Jewish way to look at it. The concept of 'salvation' as most Christians use it does not exist in Judaism.

There are some traditional stories in Judaism that mention the temple and righteousness, and shows that Gentiles can find righteousness in the eyes of God .. because of their actions.

[achilles12604]

We totally agree. THIS is in essence my entire point. Salvation can be written on to ANYONE's heart, regardless of the "correctness" of their particular religion.

.

If you replace the term 'salvation', with 'the path to god', then that is a very Jewish way to look at it. The concept of 'salvation' as most Christians use it does not exist in Judaism.

There are some traditional stories in Judaism that mention the temple and righteousness, and shows that Gentiles can find righteousness in the eyes of God .. because of their actions.

Could you point me toward the scriptures which indicate this in Judaism? I think It might prove useful in my ultimate argument about religions.

[bernee51]

We totally agree. THIS is in essence my entire point. Salvation can be written on to ANYONE's heart, regardless of the "correctness" of their particular religion.

.

If you replace the term 'salvation', with 'the path to god', then that is a very Jewish way to look at it. The concept of 'salvation' as most Christians use it does not exist in Judaism.

Nor does it exist in Hinduism or Buddhism. It seems to be a very Christian concept.

Nor do they claim exclusivity...this too seems to be a factor common only to the monotheisms.

[achilles12604]

We totally agree. THIS is in essence my entire point. Salvation can be written on to ANYONE's heart, regardless of the "correctness" of their particular religion.

.

If you replace the term 'salvation', with 'the path to god', then that is a very Jewish way to look at it. The concept of 'salvation' as most Christians use it does not exist in Judaism.

Nor does it exist in Hinduism or Buddhism. It seems to be a very Christian concept

I am curious, What becomes of those who simply refuse to get it in other religions? Do other religions have a "hell" or place of destruction?

I am pretty sure Jewish beliefs have a place like this.

To stay on track, I am creating a new thread.

[Goat]

We totally agree. THIS is in essence my entire point. Salvation can be written on to ANYONE's heart, regardless of the "correctness" of their particular religion.

.

If you replace the term 'salvation', with 'the path to god', then that is a very Jewish way to look at it. The concept of 'salvation' as most Christians use it does not exist in Judaism.

There are some traditional stories in Judaism that mention the temple and righteousness, and shows that Gentiles can find righteousness in the eyes of God .. because of their actions.

Could you point me toward the scriptures which indicate this in Judaism? I think It might prove useful in my ultimate argument about religions.

Read up on the Noahide Laws. An article explaining some of it can be found
at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah. I believe the seven laws
can be found in Genesis 9.

[micatala]

We totally agree. THIS is in essence my entire point. Salvation can be written on to ANYONE's heart, regardless of the "correctness" of their particular religion.

.

If you replace the term 'salvation', with 'the path to god', then that is a very Jewish way to look at it. The concept of 'salvation' as most Christians use it does not exist in Judaism.

There are some traditional stories in Judaism that mention the temple and righteousness, and shows that Gentiles can find righteousness in the eyes of God .. because of their actions.

Could you point me toward the scriptures which indicate this in Judaism? I think It might prove useful in my ultimate argument about religions.

Read up on the Noahide Laws. An article explaining some of it can be found
at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah. I believe the seven laws
can be found in Genesis 9.

This link should work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_laws_of_noah

According to Judaism any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as a Righteous Gentile and is assured of a place in the world to come (Olam Haba), the Jewish concept of heaven

The seven laws listed by the Talmud are[5]

Prohibition of Idolatry: - There is only one God. You shall not make for yourself an idol.
Prohibition of Murder: - You shall not murder.
Prohibition of Theft: - You shall not steal.
Prohibition of Sexual Promiscuity: - You shall not commit adultery.
Prohibition of Blasphemy: - Revere God and do not blaspheme.
Prohibition of Cruelty to Animals: - Do not eat the flesh of an animal while it is still alive.
Requirement to have just Laws: - You shall set up an effective judiciary to fairly judge observance of the preceding six laws.

[Sebastian589]

Hi Guys,
Discussing the afterlife of historical figures like Gandhi is subjective and varies based on individual beliefs. Views on heaven or hell are diverse and deeply personal. Rather than speculating about someone's eternal fate, it's more meaningful to appreciate their impact on history and their legacy in promoting peace and justice.up bhulekh

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to Sebastian589 in post #119]
I beg to differ!

This is a Debating Christianity and Religion forum.

And though it is true that different christian sects have different views about the population of hell and heaven, this is an USA forum.

In USA evangelical churches are the mainstream christianity torch holders.

Following evangelical theology Jeffry "Brother Jeff" Dahmer resides in heaven now because he found Jesus in prison before he died the death of a christian martyr by the hand of a fellow inmate.

Also following evangelical theology Mahatma "Satan Worshipper" Gandhi suffers for all eternity in hell as is his deserved fate for refusing to bow down to Jesus accepting him as his personal savior.

Easy