By Their Fruits You Shall Know Them?

[boatsnguitars]

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

Fruits:
Ethical Conduct: Good fruit may represent actions and behaviors that align with ethical principles, moral values, and righteous living. This could include honesty, integrity, and fair treatment of others.

Compassion and Kindness: Actions that demonstrate compassion, kindness, and empathy toward others are often seen as bearing good fruit. This can involve helping those in need, showing mercy, and practicing love and forgiveness.

Generosity and Charity: Acts of generosity, charity, and selfless giving are considered positive fruits. This includes sharing resources with those less fortunate and contributing to the well-being of the community.

Humility and Service: Good fruit may also be associated with humility and a willingness to serve others. Humble and selfless attitudes, coupled with a readiness to serve and uplift others, are seen as virtuous qualities.

Fruit of the Spirit: In Christian theology, the "fruit of the Spirit" is a concept found in the New Testament (Galatians 5:22-23). It includes qualities such as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These qualities are often regarded as indicators of a life guided by the Holy Spirit and are considered good fruit.

Positive Influence: Good fruit may involve positively influencing others and contributing to the well-being of the community. Leaders and individuals who inspire positive change and promote harmony are seen as bearing good fruit.

Can anyone name someone they know who bears those fruits? I can't think of one person.

And so, the question is - do Christians even exist? (Other than the ones that say "Lord, Lord?")

[TRANSPONDER]

I am aware of the feeling that most people asked to leave their wallet and car keys with a Christian or an atheist would pick the Christian. My line has rather been what makes for true, rather than what makes for good.

That said, while the average Christian is probably decent enough people, there are Questions to asked about religious businesses. I saw a vid a while ago that astounded me by saying one of the more rational - liberal countries in Europe has a church that own staggering amounts of land and property and is additionally assisted by the government, not only with tax exemption but government payments that would buy the Ukraine a big enough mercenary army to finish the war in a week. And no it isn't the Vatican, either.

And this is a respectable - long - established church. Not some scamming televangelist of controlling secretive "Church",

18 guests, I see.Glad to have you here

[Masterblaster]

Hello boatsnguitars

You ask ,do Christian's even exist.
Try this guy. Christian Marriott

Read his story on Sky News and answer if he satisfies your criteria. I cannot link you directly,...I have been warned.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to Masterblaster in post #3]
Not a lot to go on. Sad that there may have one real Christian on Earth but God decided to take him. Why?

But, if he was a good Christian did he also think gay people were abominations? Did he think other religious people were delusional or working for Satan?
Did he think atheists can do no good?

Well never know.

But that the problem, isn't it? If you're a Good, Real Christian you have to hold certain views that are inconsistent with the fruits listed.

[Masterblaster]

Hello boatsnguitars

You say - "But that the problem, isn't it? If you're a Good, Real Christian you have to hold certain views that are inconsistent with the fruits listed."
---
If you are very orthodox, then probably! I personally do not believe that the guys who write this stuff, believe it themselves.

Consider the Pope for example. He appears to be a sincere intelligent person. He venerates Marian Shrines all over the globe. Does he believe in a virgin birth, or does he consider it to be his duty to gather worship in whatever shape it appears in. I do not know. I do not agree with most Christian dogma so that I am not the one to ask.

[boatsnguitars]

Hello boatsnguitars

You say - "But that the problem, isn't it? If you're a Good, Real Christian you have to hold certain views that are inconsistent with the fruits listed."
---
If you are very orthodox, then probably! I personally do not believe that the guys who write this stuff, believe it themselves.

Consider the Pope for example. He appears to be a sincere intelligent person. He venerates Marian Shrines all over the globe. Does he believe in a virgin birth, or does he consider it to be his duty to gather worship in whatever shape it appears in. I do not know. I do not agree with most Christian dogma so that I am not the one to ask.

Yep, that's the dilemma. I certainly have met many - MANY - really good, kind people. They weren't perfect, but they certainly were 'better than most'...

Reminds me of a quote from my favorite movie, Bang the Drum Slowly:

Henry: I was his pallbearer — me and some local boys. There were flowers from the club, but no person from the club. They could've sent somebody. He wasn't a bad fella, no worse than most, and probably better than some — and not a bad ballplayer neither, when they gave him a chance, when they laid off him long enough.

(Just a shameless plug to get people to watch it.)

The strange thing is, I think most people, especially Christians, think of the "fruits" as what Christians bring to the world, and there are only a few Fred Phelps, William Lane Craigs, and Ken Hamms of the world. Yet, they are the ones claiming to following Christianity more closely. After all, the claim is that Yahweh of the OT literally sent his Himson (mix of Himself and His Son) to Earth, and the Bible - whether inspired or not - is an accurate account of his time here, and the message he wanted to give to people. That includes Revelation, it includes killing gay people, plagues, resurrections, etc. It also means there are angels and demons fighting an eternal battle, Heaven and Hell, etc.

How can one believe only the stuff that makes them kind, caring, etc, and just ignore the other stuff - and still call themselves a Christian?

Or, maybe I'm missing something? Maybe the Christians here can tell me what the right way to be a Christian is?

[TRANSPONDER]

It's a Thing, isn't it? Fred Phelps, Matt Slick and the rest - they may well think they are doing what's good and right, never mind anything bad because God says so (there are a few of those, too), and Ken Ham is a nice guy, Lane Craig is smart as a steak knife, but they talk and spread, pernicious bosh, miserable lies and dangerous beliefs, even if not rolling back Rights and causing division on the basis - or pretext - of religion. If atheists are correct of course - I'm just saying why being a nice guy doesn't remove the problem that 'through a desire to do good, it will wield a power too great and terrible" (Gandalf),