SABBATH...

[Capbook]

Is the Lord's Sabbath in the OT still for God's people in the NT?

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment

[myth-one.com]

Is it not logical matter and obvious that if no sin, no reason for sin offerings?

Two Questions

1. Was Jesus without sin?
2. Did he observe all the Jewish festivals including those that involved the offering of sin sacrifices?

Yes, I think Jesus was without sin. And i believe he was also on those festivals.

Would it not be true to say that even though without sin, Jesus as a Jewish male subjected himself to the law because it was still in operation and he was an Israelite contracted to do so by nation of his heritage. If the sinless man kept the law (all the laws without exception) even though certain features of them existed for a need he did not have (forgiveness of sin) why do you think that sinful human Israelites in the same circumstances would be free from doing the same?

If the sins are forgiven, by the right Jesus gives to his disciples, there is no need for sin offering.

If the Mosaic law was still in operation, and (for whatever reason) an Israelite found themselves without sin*, they would STILL be obligated to follow the footsteps of Jesus and do exactly as he did ie keep all the laws in the Mosaic law covenant whether he needed to or not.

Sorry, I don't think the law requires sin offering, if there is no sin.

Christ did, so without abolishment of said law

Do not think that I came to annul the Law
Matt. 5:17-19

* IMPORTANT NOTE Nobody conceived from a human father can be, even for one second "without sin" (see Romans 5:12). We all exist in a sinful (imperfect, less that what God intended) condition. Even if we did nothing but sit in a chair and think no thoughts, we would still need forgiveness for existing in that condition. When the bible says we are forgiven sins or "washed" of our sins, it means God kindly accepts to OVERLOOK /pardon/ cover over the sin. It does not mean the sin does not exist or that we become, like Jesus perfect men and women. The ransom means we are freed from punishment for the sins we constantly commit every day in thought, word and deed.

Even in that case it would mean there would be no need for sin offering, if God has forgiven the sin and overlooks it.

God overlooks sin because Jesus died to cover our sin, if not deliberate. He covers the sin we inherited from Adam, as JehovahsWitness has brought out. We cannot get out from under Adam's sin because we are all born from him, who became imperfect after he sinned. Therefore no man is perfect and without sin. God overlooks sin because, imperatively, we accept Jesus' sacrifice.

No, Christianity is not based on a human sacrifice. That's a pagan concept.

Under the New Testament Covenant, sin has absolutely nothing to do with salvation:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

Sin has no dominion over us because salvation is now a gift of God through Jesus:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

This gift that believers will receive is the eternal life which Jesus is due for remaining free of sin under the Old Testament Covenant.

He offers that as a gift to those who believe in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Being free of any sin is not mentioned as a requirement.

[onewithhim]

Of course we have sin. I John 1:8 (KJV) says: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

I would like to hear, what do you think sin means?

Anything that misses the mark of God's perfect will. We sin, oftentimes without knowing it, and that sin must be covered with the blood of a sacrifice, and that is why Jesus died, to free us completely from sin, as long as we do our best NOT to willfully sin, and we call on God for forgiveness every day.

Ok, thank you. Do you have s scripture that supports that idea?

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned." (Romans 5:12, NASB)
"So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men." (Romans 5:18, NASB)
"And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." (Hebrews 9:22, NASB)

[John17_3]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #209]

That said however, just like the first century Jewish Christians who were arguing for Gentile circumcision, it is correct to say that the Sabbath principle at least, predated the law and the principle can continue when the imposition by law is abolished. In view of this, I was trying to explain that God's own rest period (sabbath) should not be confused with the weekly sabbath which was mandated by law for humans (Mark 2v27). God's (YHWH's) rest day is thousands of years long and it is this "rest" (representing divine blessing) that we Christians seek to enter.

I think this is an important point, since many persons evidently confuse God's resting with giving a command.

[John17_3]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #222]

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned." (Romans 5:12, NASB)
"So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men." (Romans 5:18, NASB)
"And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." (Hebrews 9:22, NASB)

These scriptures brought to my mind Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
This is why David, at Psalm 51:5 says, 'Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.'

We all miss the mark of God's righteousness.
The Greek word chet, from Greek chata, actually means - to miss.

[1213]

When you say you {quote} " don't say we are under the law" are you referring to the MOSAIC LAW? Would it be accurate then to say that you hold (believe ) that Christians are not under the Mosaic law. What about JEWISH Christians? Are they not under the Mosaic law?

In English when we say "under" a certain law , it means that that law applies to them so they have to obey the law in question. ..

I think in the Bible "under the law" means person must obey the law, and people obey it, not because they want to do so, but because they think they have to do so. I believe Jesus freed people from that must. However, this doesn't mean that the law is not valid, what was wrong before, is still wrong. The change is only in how people would obey they law. Before Jesus it was because they had to, after Jesus it should be because people understand it is good and want to freely do God's will, because they love God.

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't say we are under the law. ....

I think in the Bible "under the law" means person must obey the law ...

Agreed. Now which law do you hold "we" are presently NOT under ? The Mosaic law? In short I am asking...

- Are Gentile Christians (people from various nationalities around the world) under the Mosaic law?
- Are Jewish Christians under the Mosaic law?



JW


RELATED POSTS

Were all Jews obligated to keep the Mosaic law?
viewtopic.php?p=1155441#p1155441

[onewithhim]

When you say you {quote} " don't say we are under the law" are you referring to the MOSAIC LAW? Would it be accurate then to say that you hold (believe ) that Christians are not under the Mosaic law. What about JEWISH Christians? Are they not under the Mosaic law?

In English when we say "under" a certain law , it means that that law applies to them so they have to obey the law in question. ..

I think in the Bible "under the law" means person must obey the law, and people obey it, not because they want to do so, but because they think they have to do so. I believe Jesus freed people from that must. However, this doesn't mean that the law is not valid, what was wrong before, is still wrong. The change is only in how people would obey they law. Before Jesus it was because they had to, after Jesus it should be because people understand it is good and want to freely do God's will, because they love God.

The Scripture says that a person must obey every part of the Mosaic Law. That is impossible, even for Moses' day. The Law was set up as a foreshadow of things to come---a better covenant. That it was impossible to keep all of the Law, it was to show that men needed something better. That came with Jesus and his covenant for a Kingdom.

You have the right idea in your post above. It remains for you to see that the actual Mosaic Law became obsolete and was "nailed to the cross." (Colossian 2:14) "Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us [the Mosaic Law]; and he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

"When he said, 'A new covenant,' he has made the first one obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." (Hebrews 8:13, NASB)

[myth-one.com]

The Scripture says that a person must obey every part of the Mosaic Law. That is impossible, even for Moses' day.

Yes, that was the "fault" in the original covenant.

But finally, one person did gain an inheritance of everlasting life. That person was Jesus Christ.

Under the New Testament Covenant, Jesus offers His inheritance of everlasting life to those who believe in Him as their Savior.

So that sin (disobeying the commands or laws of God) no longer affects our salvation under the new Covenant.

All one must do is believe in Jesus as their Savior.

[1213]

....The Scripture says that a person must obey every part of the Mosaic Law. That is impossible, even for Moses' day...

Please give one example of impossible part of the law.

[1213]

Now which law do you hold "we" are presently NOT under ? The Mosaic law? In short I am asking...

- Are Gentile Christians (people from various nationalities around the world) under the Mosaic law?
- Are Jewish Christians under the Mosaic law?

People that are part of the new covenant are not under any law. This does not mean that what God's law says is not valid, if something was wrong according to the law, it is still wrong today, I believe so.