The Bible's Biggest Problem(s)?

[POI]

In a continuation of this topic (viewtopic.php?t=39327&start=990), which only discusses one important topic, I present a follow-up....

For Debate:

1) Why didn't Jesus write the NT Himself? Why leave this task up to fallible humans to write what was floating around, only after decade(s) of oral traditions? Wouldn't Jesus know that earnest confusion would soon prevail, and that his true message(s) may get fouled up by human error and/or corruption?

2) Case/point: There exists countless denominations, with opposing belief systems, all in earnest in reading the exact same collection of books. If Jesus' intent is to convey truth, why not assure his message(s) are crystal clear and unified for all?

3) If Jesus also recognizes that many/most were/are illiterate, and/or the many who are literate merely read at a lower grade level, and that differing languages can also blur the message(s), why not write the Bible in a cohesive way in which even the most rudimentary person can understand, in all languages?

This is, in part, the problem of communication....

[1213]

1) Why didn't Jesus write the NT Himself? Why leave this task up to fallible humans to write what was floating around, only after decade(s) of oral traditions? Wouldn't Jesus know that earnest confusion would soon prevail, and that his true message(s) may get fouled up by human error and/or corruption?

I believe he didn't write it, because he didn't have to. Bible is good enough as it is. Corruption doesn't come from the book.

2) Case/point: There exists countless denominations, with opposing belief systems, all in earnest in reading the exact same collection of books. If Jesus' intent is to convey truth, why not assure his message(s) are crystal clear and unified for all?

The message is crystal clear, the problem is that some just don't want to accept it and twist it to their own doctrines.

3) If Jesus also recognizes that many/most were/are illiterate, and/or the many who are literate merely read at a lower grade level, and that differing languages can also blur the message(s), why not write the Bible in a cohesive way in which even the most rudimentary person can understand, in all languages?

Anyone who want to understand it, can understand it. And those who think they are not wise enough, there is a promise for to get more wisdom:

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
James 1:5

It was also promised that people can get the holy spirit to guide them:

However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but what-ever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
John 16:13
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?
Luke 11:13

That is why I think people have no excuse. Some people just don't want to be loyal to Jesus and God and make up their own doctrines.

[TRANSPONDER]

no. The Bible is not good enough. There are things that are wrong, things that fail (like prophecy0 and massive contradictions.

What the Bible - apologists do is ignore those, try to explain the problems away by inventing stuff not in the Bible, like a blob of light switching on and off to imitate the sun that hadn't been made yet, or the Marys splitting up which is not mentioned by anyone and is refuted by Luke. You even chopped up the text and reassembled it to try to get over the contradictions, tsk tsk and that failed anyway, despite your attempt to rewrite the Bible to suit yourself.

But to be fair I can't blame the Bible for the doctrinal differences. Luther's protestantism was an effort to get away from the Paganised, venial, politicised and corrupt organisation that it still is and the Bible can't be blamed for people like Joseph smith inventing a whole new religion loosely based on it, much as Islam invented a whole new religion, loosely based on the Bible.

it might have been a good idea if Jesus had written at least some of it himself, as Paul wrote his own ideas. But then those pesky atheists would just say there was no proof that it was really Jesus who wrote it.

So the Problem is with what it says, not who says it.

[POI]

I believe he didn't write it

We finally agree on something.

because he didn't have to. Bible is good enough as it is. Corruption doesn't come from the book.

Really? If you acknowledge Jesus didn't write it, then how do you know every word in the Bible, which was written many decades after he perished, which was also done so by many anonymous writers, was always perfectly preserved to what Jesus actually said?

Further, don't you think if Jesus authored the entire thing himself, it would be clearer, versus to instead allow for fallible humans to take on this task?

Sometimes, if you want something done right, do it yourself.

The message is crystal clear, the problem is that some just don't want to accept it and twist it to their own doctrines.

Hmm? I have to ask... What denomination are you? Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, other? If you instead say you are non-denominational, then you basically fall under the subcategory of a Protestant. What specific brand do you fall under? Let's start there...

Anyone who want to understand it, can understand it.

Then everyone who tries, in earnest, would have adopted the same denomination as you.

And those who think they are not wise enough, there is a promise for to get more wisdom:

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
James 1:5

Are you then saying that anyone who does not translate the Bible, like you do, and has performed this prayer, is a liar?

It was also promised that people can get the holy spirit to guide them:

However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but what-ever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
John 16:13
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?
Luke 11:13

That is why I think people have no excuse. Some people just don't want to be loyal to Jesus and God and make up their own doctrines.

Or maybe we are all just talking to ourselves, which would perfectly explain why there exists so many conflicting doctrines under the Christian umbrella.

[JehovahsWitness]

1) Why didn't Jesus write the NT Himself?

It seems evident from.surviving records about him that Jesus did not believe his mission was to be a writer.

1 Timothy 1:15 (NWT)
15 This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.+ Of these, I am foremost

Luke 19:10 (NWT)
10 For the Son of man came to seek and save what was lost.”+

John 12:47 (NWT)
47 But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world.+

John 3:17 (NWT)
17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.+

Hebrews 5:8-9 (NWT)
8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.+ 9 And after he had been made perfect,+ he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him,+

1 John 4:9 (NWT)
9 By this the love of God was revealed in our case, that God sent his only-begotten Son+ into the world so that we might gain life through him.+

Romans 5:8-9 (NWT)
8 But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.+ 9 Much more, then, since we have now been declared righteous by his blood,+ will we be saved through him from wrath.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


RELATED POSTS

Why did Christ write nothing down?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 27#p875427

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

BIBLICAL INERRANCY , CONTRADICTIONS and CORRUPTION OF SCRIPTURE

[JehovahsWitness]

Wouldn't Jesus know that earnest confusion would soon prevail, and that his true message(s) may get fouled up by human error and/or corruption?

That would depend on if Jesus thought himself to be the son of God and believed he would be resurrected 3 days after his execution to immortalnsporit life from which state he would be able to oversee and control the compilation of any accounts of his death.

[Tcg]

1) Why didn't Jesus write the NT Himself?

It seems evident from.surviving records about him that Jesus did not believe his mission was to be a writer.

1 Timothy 1:15 (NWT)
15 This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.+ Of these, I am foremost

Luke 19:10 (NWT)
10 For the Son of man came to seek and save what was lost.”+

John 12:47 (NWT)
47 But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world.+

John 3:17 (NWT)
17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.+

Hebrews 5:8-9 (NWT)
8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.+ 9 And after he had been made perfect,+ he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him,+

1 John 4:9 (NWT)
9 By this the love of God was revealed in our case, that God sent his only-begotten Son+ into the world so that we might gain life through him.+

Romans 5:8-9 (NWT)
8 But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.+ 9 Much more, then, since we have now been declared righteous by his blood,+ will we be saved through him from wrath.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


RELATED POSTS

Why did Christ write nothing down?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 27#p875427

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

BIBLICAL INERRANCY , CONTRADICTIONS and CORRUPTION OF SCRIPTURE

Moderator Clarification

Please take note of the following guidelines for this sub-forum:

4. Unsupported Bible quotations are to be considered as no more authoritative than unsupported quotations from any other book.

7. For debates purely on theology with the assumption that the Bible is an authoritative source, please consider posting in the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma subforum.

Referring to the Bible as "surviving records about him" changes neither of these.

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[JehovahsWitness]

Wouldn't Jesus know that earnest confusion would soon prevail, and that his true message(s) may get fouled up by human error and/or corruption?

That would depend on if Jesus thought himself to be the Son of God or not. If he believed he would be resurrected 3 days after his execution to immortal spirit life from which state he would be able to oversee and control the compilation of any accounts of his life, this may well have influenced a decision not to write a biography.


The above us speculation, since the reading of minds is as yet an under developped science. That said, surviving records that refer to the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth indicate that he made such claims and if he believed them to be true, this may be a contributing factor in the PP topic.

CLAIM : To clarify I hereby make one claim and one claim alone :

1. That there exist written manuscripts that contain records claiming to indicate the mindset of one Jesus of Nazareth.

SUPPORT For the above claim ie that such manuscripts exist are ... Modern day trandlations of said manuscripts. Section stipulated below.

Mark 9:31. ESV

For he was teaching his disciples, saying to them, "The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And when he is killed, after three days he will rise

[JehovahsWitness]

2) Case/point: .... If Jesus' intent is to convey truth, why not assure his message(s) are crystal clear and unified for all?

Could it be that Jesus intend was to make his message(s) are crystal clear to a selected few ? Surely a theological question that could be examied in a more appropriate subforum.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS



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viewtopic.php?p=1053514#p1053514

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viewtopic.php?p=966727#p966727

Why does God not grant understanding to some people?
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[bluegreenearth]

Wouldn't Jesus know that earnest confusion would soon prevail, and that his true message(s) may get fouled up by human error and/or corruption?

That would depend on if Jesus thought himself to be the Son of God or not. If he believed he would be resurrected 3 days after his execution to immortal spirit life from which state he would be able to oversee and control the compilation of any accounts of his life, this may well have influenced a decision not to write a biography.

Does it logically follow that if Jesus had written an autobiography and subsequently ensured its preservation without redaction or embellishment, even knowing himself to be the son of a god with an immortal spirit life, the existence of such a text would resolve at least some of the objections currently applied to the versions of the Bible in use today?